Difference between revisions of "AskedToLeave"

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{{conflictresolution}}
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{{headerbox}}'''Ask To Leave Policy:''' If someone behaves in a way that makes you feel unsafe or attempts at diffusing an argument fail and it escalates, you can ask a person to leave.
(Please note: this page intended as temporary notepad for "leave and come back to talk at a meeting, or don't come back at all" situations - as an alternative to engaging the whole NB-Discuss mailing list. It is not meant to revive broader drama for example the now-blanked-and-locked [[85]] page.)
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* '''COOPERATING IS EXCELLENT:''' It is excellent of someone asked to leave to cooperate to diffuse things till it can be discussed and resolved later when people are calmer.  
 +
* '''BACKING SOMEONE UP:''' If someone asks for someone to leave, even if you don't understand the reasons, it is usually excellent to back the person asking up and to take the person asked aside to diffuse the face-to-face conflict between them.
 +
* '''REASSURING THOSE ASKED:''' Reassure the person being asked that it is considered excellent to leave when asked. It counts in your favor. Cooperation shows consideration for keeping the space peaceful and you can request [[Mediation]] to provide neutral [[Conflict Resolution]] support to try to clear whatever happened up later.
 +
* You can read out the basic [[AskedToLeave]] policy if anyone is confused about it and give them this page link to read for themselves:
  
See also:
+
1. If you're in an argument with somebody that seems irresolvable and
* [[Conflict Resolution]]
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looks like it's escalating beyond attempts at dropping it or [[Conflict Resolution]], you or they can ask the other to leave.
* [[Community Standards]]
+
It's okay for both sides to do that, because that gets the confrontation out of the space, and gives time for people to calm down.
* [[86]]
 
  
==Ongoing==
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2. It's considered excellent to leave. It counts in your favor.
===February 5, 2014===
 
Rayc was asked to leave and come back to the next meeting by Tom for sleeping atop the elevator.
 
===February 4, 2014===
 
Andrew Dru Byrne. Asked to leave and come back to a Tuesday meeting. [http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/member/1/3/4/e/member_95284942.jpeg photo]
 
===Wednesday May 29th 2013===
 
... Donald ... sheesh.  Details later. Talked around a razor blade held in his mouth.
 
  
==Unresolved==
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3. Not leaving isn't excellent, because at that point at least one
===Saturday May 18th 2013===
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person is stuck in an immediately intractable problem.  
ShadeS was asked to leave in the morning. After prolonged discussion, she did. Hasn't returned to the space as of Wednesday May 29.
 
  
===Thursday June 13th 2013===
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4. Neither is it excellent to leave, and coming back before resolving
I ([[user:hicksu|Jarrod]]) asked Red to leave in the morning. He did, while hitting the walls and pulling down the cables in the hallway in the process. He was also asked to leave previously on June 11th, by Chase, but did not leave the space.
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the conflict.
  
===Wednesday June 19th 2013===
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More clarifying points 5-7 on this follow.
(Emailed to Noisebridge-discuss by Leif)
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{{boxend}}
  
''This afternoon I asked an older man named James to leave Noisebridge.''
+
See also:
 
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* [[Unexcellent]] - A page to link to people (noisebridge.net/unexcellent) as you're walking them to the door after asking them to leave
''This is loud obnoxious James who used to wear a cowboy hat and be around frequently. Today was the first time I've seen him in several months; I heard he has been in southen california.''
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* [[Conflict Resolution]]
 
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* [[Mediation]]
===Thursday June 20 2013===
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* [[Community Standards]]
Wade has been asked to leave the space by Dan and return to a meeting. He has left and may return to the meeting.
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* [[86]] - a list of people that are no longer welcome at Noisebridge
 
 
Wade just recently started coming to the space and even attended the most recent Tuesday meeting. He has brown hair stands about 5'6" and has been mostly wearing a bright yellow shirt. He has been working on a Pirate Radio station in the DJ booth east of church.
 
 
 
===Saturday December 28 2013===
 
Pigeon:
 
I asked Sarah to leave after becoming upset as she was unresponsive to attempts to reason with her about behavior, that I consider to be white supremacist, which made me feel uncomfortable (using the word "n****r" nonchalantly, and even after making at least one person (myself) feel uncomfortable, defending the use as taking the power away from the word, and reversing the conversation to how she feels oppressed, by being called out on being a part of gentrification, while walking in a black ghetto).
 
 
 
==Resolved==
 
===Scud and Chrissie===
 
[[Meeting_Notes_2013_05_21|Two]] [[Meeting_Notes_2013_05_28|meetings]] later ... [[Consensus_Items_History|consensus passed]] to bar Scud and Chrissie from Noisebridge permanently as of Tuesday May 28th 2013.  This may be appealed if a member sees fit to revisit at a later date.
 
  
 
==Guidelines==
 
==Guidelines==
(Here's some perspective excerpted from the Noisebridge mailing list ...)
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(Here's some perspective excerpted from the Noisebridge mailing list ...)<br>
 
+
<br>
 +
(This guidance was updated to concur with post-Noisebridge-Reboot policies.  Historically, many community problems were handled at our weekly Tuesday meetings, but these discussions became too drama-filled, and we now use other methods.  Please see the links, above, for our current ways of handling problems.)<br>
 +
<br>
 
https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-March/034846.html
 
https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-March/034846.html
 
<pre>
 
<pre>
[...] one of the reasons why the Noisebridge tradition has emerged
+
[...] one of the reasons why the Noisebridge tradition has emerged  
over the last few years of asking people to leave and come back at
+
over the years of asking people to leave is to defuse immediate  
meeting is to defuse immediate situations. It doesn't mean anything more
+
situations. It doesn't mean anything more than some matter has arisen  
than some matter has arisen that the people involved feel uncomfortable
+
that the people involved feel uncomfortable handling on their own,  
handling on their own, and would rather discuss it with the wider
+
and would rather discuss it with the wider community.
community.
 
  
It's not intended as a punishment. Indeed, if one feels outraged that
+
It's not intended as a punishment. Indeed, if one feels outraged that  
one will have to spend a maximum of seven days not at Noisebridge, I do
+
one will have to spend a maximum of seven days not at Noisebridge, I  
rather think one is probably making Noisebridge too much of your life,
+
do rather think one is probably making Noisebridge too much of your  
and need a break anyway.  
+
life, and need a break anyway.  
  
I also strongly believe the following points represent a consensus
+
I also strongly believe the following points represent a consensus  
position at this point, although it isn't the sort of thing that we put
+
position at this point, although it isn't the sort of thing that we  
through official consensus, it's definitely something that fits with
+
put through official consensus, it's definitely something that fits  
what most of us do when we're doacratically handling these situations.
+
with what most of us do when we're do-ocratically handling these  
 +
situations.
  
1. If you're in an argument with somebody that seems irresolvable and
+
1. If you're in an argument with somebody that seems irresolvable and  
looks like it's escalating, you or they should ask the other to leave
+
looks like it's escalating, you or they should ask the other to leave.
and come back to meeting. It's okay for both sides to do that, because
+
It's okay for both sides to do that, because that gets the  
that gets the confrontation out of the space, and gives time for people
+
confrontation out of the space, and gives time for people to calm down.  
to calm down.  
 
  
2. It's considered excellent to leave and come to the meeting. It counts
+
2. It's considered excellent to leave. It counts in your favor.
in your favor.
 
  
3. Not leaving isn't excellent, because at that point at least one
+
3. Not leaving isn't excellent, because at that point at least one  
 
person is stuck in an immediately intractable problem.  
 
person is stuck in an immediately intractable problem.  
  
4. Neither is it excellent to leave, and coming back before meeting. Nor
+
4. Neither is it excellent to leave, and coming back before resolving
should thou take over an hour leaving and then hover around the gate,
+
the conflict. Nor should thou take over an hour leaving and then hover  
very slowly picking up your laptop pieces, like with Junior that last
+
around the gate, very slowly picking up your laptop pieces, as happened
time.
+
with “Junior” that last time.
  
5. It's almost certainly not excellent, incidentally, to try and game
+
5. It's almost certainly not excellent, incidentally, to try and game  
this by just repeatedly asking people to leave and come back at the next
+
this by just repeatedly asking people to leave and seeking mediation.
meeting, and then like two minutes after the meeting, ask them to leave
+
There are many other exploits like this that you can think of. Almost  
and come back to the next meeting, etc. There are many other exploits like
+
all of them fall under another widely-held hackerspace axiom, "don't  
this that you can think of. Almost all of them fall under another
+
be a dick", and won't get you any credit when you gloat with a big  
widely-held hackerspace axiom, "don't be a dick", and won't get you any
+
grin on your face. Indeed, you may find that the person who did the  
credit when you come to the meeting with a big grin on your face.
+
asking to leave will be in far bigger disgrace than the person who  
Indeed, you may find that the person who did the asking to leave will be
+
left. This has actually happened. A lot.
in far bigger disgrace than the person who left. This happens. A lot.
 
  
5. If you feel ABSOLUTELY outraged about being kicked out, come back at
+
6. If you feel ABSOLUTELY outraged about being kicked out, it is almost
meeting, and almost certainly other people will feel ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED
+
certain that other people will feel ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED on your behalf,  
on your behalf, or perhaps roll their eyes at what happened. It is a
+
or perhaps roll their eyes at what happened. Please seek mediation. It  
good way to see how the rest of the community feels. It is very unlikely
+
is a good way to see how the rest of the community feels. It is very  
that if you are asked to leave for a dumb reason that the rest of the
+
unlikely that if you are asked to leave for a dumb reason that the rest  
meeting will sympathise with the person telling you to leave. If they
+
of the community will sympathise with the person telling you to leave.  
do, perhaps your OUTRAGE was misplaced.
+
If they do, perhaps your OUTRAGE was misplaced.
  
6. And yes you are part of a community, and your big "nobody tells *me*
+
7. And yes you are part of a community, and your big "nobody tells *me*  
what to do" isn't actually the anarchism we practice here. Otherwise you
+
what to do" isn't actually the anarchism we practice here. Otherwise you  
could just turn the place into a satanic ice cream parlor and everyone
+
could just turn the place into a satanic ice cream parlor and everyone  
would be like woooo anarchy, which they would not. Well, maybe at first,
+
would be like woooo anarchy, which they would not. Well, maybe at first,  
but then they would be like why are these arduinos vanilla flavored and
+
but then they would be like why are these arduinos vanilla flavored and  
 
melting, and the crying would begin.
 
melting, and the crying would begin.
 +
 
</pre>
 
</pre>

Latest revision as of 19:39, 1 March 2022

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Ask To Leave Policy: If someone behaves in a way that makes you feel unsafe or attempts at diffusing an argument fail and it escalates, you can ask a person to leave.
  • COOPERATING IS EXCELLENT: It is excellent of someone asked to leave to cooperate to diffuse things till it can be discussed and resolved later when people are calmer.
  • BACKING SOMEONE UP: If someone asks for someone to leave, even if you don't understand the reasons, it is usually excellent to back the person asking up and to take the person asked aside to diffuse the face-to-face conflict between them.
  • REASSURING THOSE ASKED: Reassure the person being asked that it is considered excellent to leave when asked. It counts in your favor. Cooperation shows consideration for keeping the space peaceful and you can request Mediation to provide neutral Conflict Resolution support to try to clear whatever happened up later.
  • You can read out the basic AskedToLeave policy if anyone is confused about it and give them this page link to read for themselves:

1. If you're in an argument with somebody that seems irresolvable and looks like it's escalating beyond attempts at dropping it or Conflict Resolution, you or they can ask the other to leave. It's okay for both sides to do that, because that gets the confrontation out of the space, and gives time for people to calm down.

2. It's considered excellent to leave. It counts in your favor.

3. Not leaving isn't excellent, because at that point at least one person is stuck in an immediately intractable problem.

4. Neither is it excellent to leave, and coming back before resolving the conflict.

More clarifying points 5-7 on this follow.

See also:

Guidelines[edit]

(Here's some perspective excerpted from the Noisebridge mailing list ...)

(This guidance was updated to concur with post-Noisebridge-Reboot policies. Historically, many community problems were handled at our weekly Tuesday meetings, but these discussions became too drama-filled, and we now use other methods. Please see the links, above, for our current ways of handling problems.)

https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-March/034846.html

[...] one of the reasons why the Noisebridge tradition has emerged 
over the years of asking people to leave is to defuse immediate 
situations. It doesn't mean anything more than some matter has arisen 
that the people involved feel uncomfortable handling on their own, 
and would rather discuss it with the wider community.

It's not intended as a punishment. Indeed, if one feels outraged that 
one will have to spend a maximum of seven days not at Noisebridge, I 
do rather think one is probably making Noisebridge too much of your 
life, and need a break anyway. 

I also strongly believe the following points represent a consensus 
position at this point, although it isn't the sort of thing that we 
put through official consensus, it's definitely something that fits 
with what most of us do when we're do-ocratically handling these 
situations.

1. If you're in an argument with somebody that seems irresolvable and 
looks like it's escalating, you or they should ask the other to leave. 
It's okay for both sides to do that, because that gets the 
confrontation out of the space, and gives time for people to calm down. 

2. It's considered excellent to leave. It counts in your favor.

3. Not leaving isn't excellent, because at that point at least one 
person is stuck in an immediately intractable problem. 

4. Neither is it excellent to leave, and coming back before resolving 
the conflict. Nor should thou take over an hour leaving and then hover 
around the gate, very slowly picking up your laptop pieces, as happened 
with “Junior” that last time.

5. It's almost certainly not excellent, incidentally, to try and game 
this by just repeatedly asking people to leave and seeking mediation. 
There are many other exploits like this that you can think of. Almost 
all of them fall under another widely-held hackerspace axiom, "don't 
be a dick", and won't get you any credit when you gloat with a big 
grin on your face. Indeed, you may find that the person who did the 
asking to leave will be in far bigger disgrace than the person who 
left. This has actually happened. A lot.

6. If you feel ABSOLUTELY outraged about being kicked out, it is almost 
certain that other people will feel ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED on your behalf, 
or perhaps roll their eyes at what happened. Please seek mediation. It 
is a good way to see how the rest of the community feels. It is very 
unlikely that if you are asked to leave for a dumb reason that the rest 
of the community will sympathise with the person telling you to leave. 
If they do, perhaps your OUTRAGE was misplaced.

7. And yes you are part of a community, and your big "nobody tells *me* 
what to do" isn't actually the anarchism we practice here. Otherwise you 
could just turn the place into a satanic ice cream parlor and everyone 
would be like woooo anarchy, which they would not. Well, maybe at first, 
but then they would be like why are these arduinos vanilla flavored and 
melting, and the crying would begin.