Editing Meeting Notes 2011 03 01
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=== Introduction and Names === | === Introduction and Names === | ||
Those present: | Those present: | ||
DrJesus | |||
Al | |||
Snail | |||
Rubin | |||
Rijke | |||
Lei | |||
Miloh | |||
Jeff | |||
Mijkael | |||
Clff | |||
Azi | |||
John | |||
Steve | |||
Jason | |||
Mike | |||
Will | |||
Harold | |||
Carol | |||
Tim | |||
Sam | |||
Own | |||
Claudia | |||
Michael | |||
Shannon | |||
Dervin(?) | |||
Maria(?) | |||
Heph | |||
Gescykae | |||
Kelly | |||
Enya | |||
Rachel M | |||
Glen | |||
John | |||
Seth | |||
Danny | |||
Cynthia | |||
Ben | |||
Rachel H | |||
=== Announcements === | === Announcements === | ||
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* [[Show & Tell]] (Tuesdays, 7.30pm, electronics lab) | * [[Show & Tell]] (Tuesdays, 7.30pm, electronics lab) | ||
* [[Cultured_Drinks_Brewing_Program |Tastebridge culturing]] - (Wednesday, ~6PM, NoiseKitchen) | * [[Cultured_Drinks_Brewing_Program |Tastebridge culturing]] - (Wednesday, ~6PM, NoiseKitchen) | ||
* [[ | * [[Linux_System_Administration_Study_Group]] - (Wednesday, 6PM, A. Turing) | ||
* [[Unityversity |GameDevelopment]] - (Wednesday, 7PM, E Lab/Main Hall]] | * [[Unityversity |GameDevelopment]] - (Wednesday, 7PM, E Lab/Main Hall]] | ||
* [[SCoW]] craft group - (Wednesday, 7PM, SCoW area) | * [[SCoW]] craft group - (Wednesday, 7PM, SCoW area) | ||
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* To bar Patrick from entering the space and participating in the community. | * To bar Patrick from entering the space and participating in the community. | ||
(Note from the note-taker. This was obviously a long conversation, and my note-taking is imperfect. I'd encourage everyone present to edit their own entries (and spelling of their names) if they feel they are inaccurate or add comments that I missed, and anyone who feels curious to contact the contributors to clarify before taking this as the perfect description of their opinions.) | |||
There is firstly a recap of last week's events, including how the police got | |||
There is a recap of last week's events, including how the police got | |||
involved in the incident after the last meeting, and a clarification that it | involved in the incident after the last meeting, and a clarification that it | ||
was Patrick who called the police. See | was Patrick who called the police. See | ||
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Danny clarifies that unlike last week, all comments, unless specifically | Danny clarifies that unlike last week, all comments, unless specifically | ||
requested and agreed | requested and agreed as confidential, will be added to the record. | ||
Shannon says he is less comfortable the less open we are. | Shannon says he is less comfortable the less open we are. | ||
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he uses common sense is another matter. But by banning somebody we open a lot | he uses common sense is another matter. But by banning somebody we open a lot | ||
of doors to the future. This sets a baseline for how much a dick you have to | of doors to the future. This sets a baseline for how much a dick you have to | ||
be for future bannings. | be for for future bannings. | ||
(Printed copies of the evidence collected from last week and available in the | (Printed copies of the evidence collected from last week and available in the | ||
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who feels they are being harassed responds and tells him to stop, he denies | who feels they are being harassed responds and tells him to stop, he denies | ||
that the person really wants him to stop, that they would benefit from physical | that the person really wants him to stop, that they would benefit from physical | ||
intimacy with him. Harmless is not how I would characterize that. | intimacy with him, etc. Harmless is not how I would characterize that. | ||
Rijke: I've been reading the evidence. I've been reading about stalkers and | |||
their victims, and typical patterns of harassment. Particular aspects of the | their victims, and typical patterns of harassment. Particular aspects of the | ||
wording, certain undertones and discriptions to interactions and his responses | wording, certain undertones and discriptions to interactions and his responses | ||
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Danny: Jim raised the good point on the mailing list which is: Why are we doing | Danny: Jim raised the good point on the mailing list which is: Why are we doing | ||
this through consensus, given that people | this through consensus, given that people signed a statement using | ||
Noisebridge's parallel governance system, the do-acracy, saying that Patrick | |||
was unwelcome and that they would escort him from the building? Last meeting | was unwelcome and that they would escort him from the building? Last meeting | ||
came collectively to the conclusion that consensus was appropriate. We discovered that some members were not at that meeting | came collectively to the conclusion that consensus was appropriate. Why was that? We discovered that some members were not at that meeting | ||
because they no longer felt safe at NB because of Patrick's behavior. Given this, we felt | because they no longer felt safe at NB because of Patrick's behavior. Given this, we felt | ||
that if we did run it through consensus, we would make it clear that this | that if we did run it through consensus, we would make it clear that this | ||
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strongly disapprove of the behavior. | strongly disapprove of the behavior. | ||
''(At this point, and | Rubin: What does banning mean? | ||
''(At this point, and convieniently after his own long speech, the note-taker's magic surveillance pen ran out of battery, so the notes are paraphrasing much more from this point. Sorry -- particularly to DrJesus whose function as moderator has apparently meant that his many useful contributions have been largely merged into the general "discussion" asides. Damnit!)'' | |||
Shannon: I've read through the evidence folder. I don't think this reaches to | Shannon: I've read through the evidence folder. I don't think this reaches to | ||
even the minimum requirements for harassment in the workplace. I think it points | even the minimum requirements for harassment in the workplace. I think it points | ||
to him being bad at picking up women. I feel that what we're really doing | to him being bad at picking up women. I feel that what we're really doing is | ||
banning this person for his consistent inability to work within our group. | banning this person for his consistent inability to work within our group. | ||
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harassed but that's not the point. The people who it happened to felt unsafe, | harassed but that's not the point. The people who it happened to felt unsafe, | ||
and they are grown-up sensible people with better things to deal than deal with | and they are grown-up sensible people with better things to deal than deal with | ||
this. They felt unsafe, and that's what we need to concentrate on. But we | this crap. They felt unsafe, and that's what we need to concentrate on. But we | ||
are meeting today about two things: one is what to do about Patrick. And the | are meeting today about two things: one is what to do about Patrick. And the | ||
other is to discuss how we are handling it. We should keep those two processes | other is to discuss how we are handling it. We should keep those two processes | ||
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the stated reasons why. His behavior failings in general are sufficient. | the stated reasons why. His behavior failings in general are sufficient. | ||
Rachel H: I | Rachel H: I think people might think we're banning Patrick because we don't | ||
like him. But I think the reason is that he consistently fails | like him. But I think the reason is that he consistently fails to get how to work | ||
within the | within the space. | ||
Rubin: Let me try and define that. There's lots of people in the space whose | Rubin: Let me try and define that. There's lots of people in the space whose | ||
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problem-solving. He doesn't respond, and has actively avoided me. | problem-solving. He doesn't respond, and has actively avoided me. | ||
DrJesus: How many people have reached out to him? (Lot of hands) | |||
How many people have got no response? (A few hands) | How many people have got no response? (A few hands) | ||
How many people have got the response "fuck off"? (More hands) | How many people have got the response "fuck off"? (More hands) | ||
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the man. | the man. | ||
Ryce | Ryce: We do need, however, to move forward to consider similiar scenarios. For | ||
instance, should we have an official contact email address for people to report such incidents, anonymously if necessary? | instance, should we have an official contact email address for people to report such incidents, anonymously if necessary? | ||
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John: I disagree with Shannon. I think he's seriously delusional. It's all in his head. | John: I disagree with Shannon. I think he's seriously delusional. It's all in his head. | ||
Rubin: Well I think you are all in my head too. I would like a definition of | |||
"banning". We are creating an avenue for future bans from the space, and I | "banning". We are creating an avenue for future bans from the space, and I | ||
believe this will make me totally trigger-happy to start banning like crazy so | believe this will make me totally trigger-happy to start banning like crazy so | ||
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Danny: Just to be clear, Patrick gets the same (very thin) level of protection | Danny: Just to be clear, Patrick gets the same (very thin) level of protection | ||
in these notes as afforded any other | in these notes as afforded any other Noisebridge member, which is that it is | ||
first name only. We also went to some effort to make the evidence | first name only. We also went to some effort to make the evidence | ||
non-googleable to protect the privacy of Patrick and the other people involved. | non-googleable to protect the privacy of Patrick and the other people involved. | ||
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DrJesus: To bar Patrick from entering the space and participating in the | DrJesus: To bar Patrick from entering the space and participating in the | ||
community. [ | community. [Recorder: note the full consensus item includes Patrick's full | ||
name, and is recorded | name, and is recorded in the consensus log.] | ||
(Discussion about whether and to what extent the consensus item can be | (Discussion about whether and to what extent the consensus item can be changed. Consensus is that we can change it within reason to reflect the actual consensus without resetting the whole process, and that a one word change falls under this tradition) | ||
John: Just wish to add to the notes my sense that this is for major | |||
non-excellence without willingness to reform. | non-excellence without willingness to reform. | ||
Claudia: I was harassed, but it's good for us to work together to ensure that | Claudia: I was harassed, but it's good for us to work together to ensure that | ||
he can reform, improve, get a job | he can reform, improve, get a job, support he needs. | ||
John: I think it's appropriate that we all aim to be helpful to Patrick. | |||
Rubin: I would like to note that if you notice anyone shit-talking about | Rubin: I would like to note that if you notice anyone shit-talking about | ||
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Rachel M: I would like to note that I think we are doing much better at consensus. | Rachel M: I would like to note that I think we are doing much better at consensus. | ||
=== Discussion Items === | === Discussion Items === |