Meeting Notes 2011 09 13

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== HOWTO run a meeting. ==
 
 
Pick a moderator, and a note-taker. The note-taker should:
 
 
* write notes in this page, put them back up online when they're done
 
* edit the [[Current_Consensus_Items|Current Consensus Items]] if anything is decided to be up for consensus next week (stuff raised for consensus this week should be publicised for a final decision next week)
 
* edit the [[Consensus_Items_History|Consensus Items History]] if anything was consensed or failed to consense this week.
 
* tell treasurer@noisebridge.net and secretary@noisebridge.net if there are new members.
 
 
Moderator should:
 
* make sure everyone gets a chance to speak
 
* speak minimally themselves
 
* keep the meeting moving! you're in charge of summarising the consensus, and/or suggesting things that need to be done!
 
* get the membership binders and ensure they are returned to the black desk
 
 
 
== Agenda ==
 
== Agenda ==
  
 
[https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Category:Meeting_Notes The 178th Meeting of Noisebridge]
 
[https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Category:Meeting_Notes The 178th Meeting of Noisebridge]
  
Note-taker: FIXME YOUR NAME HERE
+
Note-taker: [[User:Malaclyps]]
  
Moderator: FIXME THEIR NAME HERE
+
Moderator: [[User:Leif]]
+
  
 
=== Introduction and Names ===
 
=== Introduction and Names ===
 +
 
* [[Noisebridge_Vision|What Noisebridge is about]]: "Noisebridge is a 501c3 nonprofit that provides a space for creation, collaboration, and learning about technology and creative projects. Noisebridge provides space, power tools, and infrastructure to help the public learn new skills and create cool things. Noisebridge continues to exist through and depends entirely on membership fees and donations. Our code of conduct is 'Be excellent to each other'."
 
* [[Noisebridge_Vision|What Noisebridge is about]]: "Noisebridge is a 501c3 nonprofit that provides a space for creation, collaboration, and learning about technology and creative projects. Noisebridge provides space, power tools, and infrastructure to help the public learn new skills and create cool things. Noisebridge continues to exist through and depends entirely on membership fees and donations. Our code of conduct is 'Be excellent to each other'."
 +
 
* Round of introductions: What's your name, what do you do, and if you are new, how did you hear about Noisebridge? Start with the moderator and go left.
 
* Round of introductions: What's your name, what do you do, and if you are new, how did you hear about Noisebridge? Start with the moderator and go left.
 +
 +
Leif is moderating the meeting
 +
 +
Shaun-Simon -- first time at any hackerspace
 +
 +
Michael -- Applied Anthropologist hanging out to SPY ON THE PRIMATES, overwhelmed by the amount of activity going on
 +
 +
Mike -- a technowanderer
 +
 +
Jesse -- I'm a just into technology, projects apparently working on an arcade table to play classic arcade games
 +
 +
Elliot -- first time,
 +
 +
Drew -- just turned up this week, developer working on some UNDOUBTEDLY COOL projects
 +
 +
Danny -- I am taking notes
 +
 +
Wish -- Wish fulfilling tree is what it's short for. It's like bazillions of years ago, I was applied math/arch/engineering into classical Indian music, yoga, mathematical kind of science of consciousness raising with combined with the Gods and Maestros of India. Running for Mayor. Kind of hard word what with the MAN. Dad was an innovative open heart surgeon, and eccentric hacking part of my background.
 +
 +
Jorgen -- involved with Tastebridge, not running for mayor.
 +
 +
Evan -- been coming here for the last six months, generally been doing web dev.
 +
 +
Michel - I come from Paris, first time here. Hi!
 +
 +
Carl -- and I'm watching people mispelling my name.
 +
 +
Rob -- community plumber. Into web dev and STUFF.
 +
 +
Duncan -- is a friend to all
 +
 +
Leanne - jut want to learn how to cook, and hack, etc.
 +
 +
Alex -- herds electrons
 +
 +
Snail -- professional cat herder
 +
 +
Rubin -- I like to keep it
 +
 +
 
* [[Consensus Process|A brief primer on consensus process]]: We agree and so should you! Only paid-up members can block consensus.
 
* [[Consensus Process|A brief primer on consensus process]]: We agree and so should you! Only paid-up members can block consensus.
  
Line 39: Line 57:
  
 
Cool new projects? Something you'd like people to know? Say now, but keep it short!
 
Cool new projects? Something you'd like people to know? Say now, but keep it short!
 +
  
 
=== New or Stale Events ===
 
=== New or Stale Events ===
  
 
Is there anything new happening at the space?
 
Is there anything new happening at the space?
 +
 
Is there anything that has stopped happening at the space?
 
Is there anything that has stopped happening at the space?
 +
 +
Anyone interested in restarting the Ruby group?
 +
 +
It was more of a class thing, every Tuesday at 6pm and Robert was holding it, and he relocated to the downtown library, due to the crowds on Tuesday. Like to reboot it locally here. Maybe better more as a working group rather than a class, because everyone here has their own little projects.
 +
 +
According to Steve Dee, hopefully we start a preliminary meeting of deep hack, spelunking for the 21st century. A great need to rediscover what's under your fingertips. Understand what underlies all the technology we use. Project will be to see what's going on in a computer memory, using qemu to examine and modify its memory while it's running. Talk to Mike or Leif after the meeting.
 +
 +
Hacker Prom is going to be on October 1st. If you feel like helping, contact [[User:Rubin110]] . We'll also have the Arse Electronika conference about technology and porn workshop the next day. The perfect prom chaser.
 +
 +
[http://dorkbot.org/ Dorkbot] would like to host another event here, they weren't able to pull talkers together for this month. Looks like it'll be the 3rd week of October on Wednesday. Donations would go to us. Weeeee!
 +
 +
(TODO update the merging of Django class with Python class)
  
 
=== Financial Report ===
 
=== Financial Report ===
Funds in bank:  
+
 
 +
Funds in bank: pretty well, so legend has it.
  
  
 
=== Membership Binder ===
 
=== Membership Binder ===
 +
 
* Read off any names from the binder for the past month. Write a check on every open application.
 
* Read off any names from the binder for the past month. Write a check on every open application.
 +
 
* Anyone up for joining this week (ie have four checks by their name + have two sponsors) should introduce themselves then leave the area in search of gifts (traditionally beer and a lime) for the rest of the group. The rest of the meeting should consense on whether they may join.
 
* Anyone up for joining this week (ie have four checks by their name + have two sponsors) should introduce themselves then leave the area in search of gifts (traditionally beer and a lime) for the rest of the group. The rest of the meeting should consense on whether they may join.
 +
 +
 +
Jorgen was consensed on 2011-09-13 and is now a member!
 +
Alex Paul was consensed on 2011-09-13 and is now a member!
  
 
=== Consensus items ===
 
=== Consensus items ===
Line 58: Line 97:
  
 
To bar Jay from entering the space and participating in the community.  
 
To bar Jay from entering the space and participating in the community.  
 
  
 
''(See [[Current_Consensus_Items|Current Consensus Items]] page.)''
 
''(See [[Current_Consensus_Items|Current Consensus Items]] page.)''
  
=== Discussion Items ===
+
Rubin felt that it would be appropriate not to kick him while he's down. The problem may already have solved itself, so we shouldn't pre-emptively make a rule.
  
Getting more t-shirts
+
Wish says I just saw him as just as a huge potential problem because he has some serious emotional issues, and tends to drag people down. It stopped the whole process of Noisebridge. It seems unlikely that he would be re-cuperated after a month.
 +
 
 +
Rubin says he agrees, but we shouldn't do it until after a month. Right now, we
 +
don't have an issue.
 +
 
 +
Leif feels like talking to him would be the right thing to do.
 +
 
 +
It seems like the best moment to put this process through would be after the suspension, otherwise consensus may be difficult to achieve. (AKA RUBIN BLOCKS)
 +
 
 +
The consensus is that the consensus be postponed until the month's suspension is up.
 +
---
 +
 
 +
Getting more t-shirts. $1500 approx is allotted. Request for red shirts for trek victims, also women's sizes. Also wearable bikesheds and embroidered ... I don't know, Swiss national dress?
 +
 
 +
"Shall Noisebridge order and pay $1500 for t-shirts." is proposed for consensus.
 +
 
 +
=== Discussion Items ===
  
 
Ben K would like to talk about lighting.
 
Ben K would like to talk about lighting.
  
Followup on the Jay Drama from last week.
+
I've heard rumors, made measurements, COLLECTED FACTS, while we have the lights turned on, we are drawing 2.5KW per hour. That's pprox 1/3rd of our power bill, costs hundreds of dollars a month (our last bill was c. $833). Also burned out lights that are drawing power.
 +
 
 +
We don't know what is using all the energy. So phase 1 of Operation DESTRUCTO-ENERGY is
 +
 
 +
* Measuring. Put one measurement device on one of our feeds, already. Ben would like to spend NB money on a second device that works on the second feed. $700 will meter the whole place.
 +
 
 +
* Once we have metering, the SF dept of environment who will come out, and audit what we are using for electricity with the hope that they can get us funding from PG&E to improve the situation. They have explicitly are NOT part of building inspection, they  want to reduce our energy usage only. We have moderately inefficient lighting, but it can be significantly improved for a sum of money -- we have no idea of the costs. But that's the point of the inspection. They write down what we have, so that they can prove we aren't lying when we ask for the money from PG&E. We have a whole pile of spares and a whole pile of dead lights, which Jim and Ben will be fixing together before the inspector comes in next week or so (appointment has not yet been scheduled).
 +
 
 +
Wish asked about solar panels. Ben says we would need more money than we have -- it would take 10-15 years to recoup the costs. We could drop our powerbill by a third.
 +
 
 +
We are taking 900Watts on the front panel, and no idea what it is.
 +
 
 +
We have one two-phase panel, and we have a standard three-phase commercial
 +
panel, one to the kitchen, one to the shop. And then a third one that Rubin
 +
just spotted.
 +
 
 +
Rubin explains how the two sweatshops were divided, so the electrics are a
 +
mess, and that's why we get two measurements.
 +
 
 +
It was agreed to fund-raise for the $700, and for a consensus item to be placed next week to draw the remainder from NB funds.
 +
 
 +
"Noisebridge shall pay the funds up to $700 measuring device, after a collection has been made."
 +
is put up for consensus.
  
 
Danny would like to talk about what happened with Rob 2.0's rack, and do-but-notify
 
Danny would like to talk about what happened with Rob 2.0's rack, and do-but-notify
  
 
Pass the donation box for a second projector (for Church)
 
Pass the donation box for a second projector (for Church)
 +
 +
Rubin says:
 +
When we did the revamp of the infrastructure, when the rack was set up, it was
 +
a rat's nest, with cables hanging out. I thought it was a danger. When I
 +
unplugged it, our internet stopped working. Some people thought that there was
 +
a MITM attack.  Actually it turned out to be the closet, so we fixed that.
 +
 +
Last night, we were whittled down a lot of servers. When we first started NB,
 +
we stated that we didn't want the place turning into a hosting facility. People
 +
put in machines, they don't tell anyone, noone leave any notes. It's a pain.
 +
Noisebridge money goes into paying for the power and the internet.
 +
 +
The rack in question was barely holding together, nothing was powering on, there was a melted
 +
laptop. So I decided to move it out to the sidetalk.  It didn't seem to be
 +
doing anything useful, and was in the way of the fire escape. And in the spirit of noisebridge, I felt I was hacking
 +
the space, by removing the rack.
 +
 +
There was a 2U which was missing everything but its motherboard, but wasn't
 +
really assembled together. There was four powerstrips and ethernet tied to the machine; both were dangerously looped over the rest of the sapce.
 +
 +
Jorgen said when Rob came in he asked about his servers. Rubin said
 +
that they really didn't seem working like servers.
 +
 +
We re-iterated the rule that everything
 +
that is deposited in the space is a donation, and membership shelves have no
 +
guarantee.
 +
 +
Duncan points out having a name and number on an item *can* help stop it from
 +
being re-purposed.
 +
 +
Mike talked about how Rob had messed with public resources, like the computer
 +
he used. A lot of the pictures of the build out were deleted, and Linux
 +
installed. He destroyed three really good scooters.
 +
 +
Mike screamed at him last night because he depended on that computer.
 +
 +
Rob 1.0 had to rush , but can relate to some of Rob's behaviours, because I'm a
 +
minor version of him. But I think are some good underlying qualities, and he
 +
has potential to be more valuable asset as a lot of people do. Despite all of
 +
the negativity, I think there is their potential.
 +
 +
Rachel Hospodar said she was there last night to meet Rob 2.0 -- the people were Rachel, Mitch, Miloh, Jake, Leila, Mike. He seemed like he
 +
wanted to be here, but he had a hard time accepting that he had to change. It's
 +
not clear which way he has to go.
 +
 +
Winn: here is another sort of really faulty psychological person. He's had a
 +
hard life. He can win you over. He can be
 +
disruptive. Everyplace I go, I can tell where he's been.
 +
 +
Rubin felt it was inappropriate to talk about Rob 2.0 without him being here to defend himself.
 +
 +
Danny felt that a warning was more appropriate than throwing things out.
 +
 +
Rachel Hospodar says that throwing stuff out like this without warning, is an
 +
asshole move.
 +
 +
Evan says we have a reasonable expectation that the rack was not being used,
 +
and ignored for a good period of time, and yes, it should be thrown out. A post
 +
to the main mailing list about that, though, would be useful.
 +
 +
Last night at 3AM, Rachel says we had a giant argument with Rob 2.0. We tried to
 +
convince him not to be an asshole. And then Rob's response was to explain the
 +
reasoning behind that behaviour. I don't care the reason behind it, I just care that he was an asshole, says Rachel, and now I
 +
feel I'm having the same experience with you, Rubin.
 +
 +
It was harder to pursuade him to change his behaviour, because we had to explain why Rubin is an asshole too, and why
 +
that's sometimes okay.
 +
 +
Someone says they hate Rubin. Someone says they love Rubin.
 +
 +
Wish was a newcomer, and was made to feel not welcome, and then left, and then
 +
came back. There have been territorial games, where if I fell asleep, people
 +
say they were going to put stuff out on the street. You can take it a step
 +
further with bullshit. It can go with people who have been longer, and play it
 +
as a negative aspect. You dont' want a whole lot of game-playing. Being
 +
excellent isn't quoting being excellent. Let's just try to be excellent. We
 +
shouldn't have insider intrigues.
 +
 +
Duncan can see both sides of it. Rachel made a good summation: one thing I will
 +
point out, a discussion with Danny, when I first got here, I was rather feral.
 +
The music went up, and I thought it was an excellent thing to pull the wire
 +
out, and I sort of modelled that on behaviour that I'd seen in the space. One thing to do:
 +
it might be mindful, with a broad spectrum of backgrounds, our behaviour will
 +
be modelled. It might be one thing to throw away a rack. Someone might do the
 +
same with a makerbot. While there's no hard and fast boundary, giving some
 +
error or doubt would be useful.
 +
 +
Someone notes that Rob 2.0 did leave the space voluntarily. He should get credit for that.
 +
 +
Jorgen believes he may have ADD. He'll take the scooter, and be five minutes in
 +
the workshop, he'll take out eight screws, and then he'll wander off onto the
 +
computer. The thing that bothered me was the constant usage of community
 +
computers.
 +
 +
One of the problems with Rob, is that he was sleeping here. Kayla says she has keys for a place for him to sleep.
 +
 +
If you see Rob taking things apart, ask him if he is going to put things back together.
 +
 +
Duncan says part of the issue is that he's got a rough history as a blackhat.
 +
 +
Rubin: nothing wrong with being a blackhat.
 +
 +
Duncan: but I think he wants to change, and all of this didn't help.
 +
 +
Someone: As a fellow person with ADHD, part of it is you don't consider the consequences
 +
of your actions. Executive functions aren't the greatest. You just have to form habits by restructuring things. Pretty much I think the best solution just to reiterate to Rob, to not do certain things, if you see him doing them.
 +
 +
Jorgen says he responds well with a good sense of humor.
 +
 +
Everyone agreed Jorgen is a good point person to have as the contact person.
 +
 +
We agreed to let Rob 2.0 help himself to the racks in the back classroom.
  
 
=== End of Meeting ===
 
=== End of Meeting ===

Latest revision as of 02:08, 14 September 2011

Contents

[edit] Agenda

The 178th Meeting of Noisebridge

Note-taker: User:Malaclyps

Moderator: User:Leif

[edit] Introduction and Names

  • What Noisebridge is about: "Noisebridge is a 501c3 nonprofit that provides a space for creation, collaboration, and learning about technology and creative projects. Noisebridge provides space, power tools, and infrastructure to help the public learn new skills and create cool things. Noisebridge continues to exist through and depends entirely on membership fees and donations. Our code of conduct is 'Be excellent to each other'."
  • Round of introductions: What's your name, what do you do, and if you are new, how did you hear about Noisebridge? Start with the moderator and go left.

Leif is moderating the meeting

Shaun-Simon -- first time at any hackerspace

Michael -- Applied Anthropologist hanging out to SPY ON THE PRIMATES, overwhelmed by the amount of activity going on

Mike -- a technowanderer

Jesse -- I'm a just into technology, projects apparently working on an arcade table to play classic arcade games

Elliot -- first time,

Drew -- just turned up this week, developer working on some UNDOUBTEDLY COOL projects

Danny -- I am taking notes

Wish -- Wish fulfilling tree is what it's short for. It's like bazillions of years ago, I was applied math/arch/engineering into classical Indian music, yoga, mathematical kind of science of consciousness raising with combined with the Gods and Maestros of India. Running for Mayor. Kind of hard word what with the MAN. Dad was an innovative open heart surgeon, and eccentric hacking part of my background.

Jorgen -- involved with Tastebridge, not running for mayor.

Evan -- been coming here for the last six months, generally been doing web dev.

Michel - I come from Paris, first time here. Hi!

Carl -- and I'm watching people mispelling my name.

Rob -- community plumber. Into web dev and STUFF.

Duncan -- is a friend to all

Leanne - jut want to learn how to cook, and hack, etc.

Alex -- herds electrons

Snail -- professional cat herder

Rubin -- I like to keep it


[edit] Short Announcements

Cool new projects? Something you'd like people to know? Say now, but keep it short!


[edit] New or Stale Events

Is there anything new happening at the space?

Is there anything that has stopped happening at the space?

Anyone interested in restarting the Ruby group?

It was more of a class thing, every Tuesday at 6pm and Robert was holding it, and he relocated to the downtown library, due to the crowds on Tuesday. Like to reboot it locally here. Maybe better more as a working group rather than a class, because everyone here has their own little projects.

According to Steve Dee, hopefully we start a preliminary meeting of deep hack, spelunking for the 21st century. A great need to rediscover what's under your fingertips. Understand what underlies all the technology we use. Project will be to see what's going on in a computer memory, using qemu to examine and modify its memory while it's running. Talk to Mike or Leif after the meeting.

Hacker Prom is going to be on October 1st. If you feel like helping, contact User:Rubin110 . We'll also have the Arse Electronika conference about technology and porn workshop the next day. The perfect prom chaser.

Dorkbot would like to host another event here, they weren't able to pull talkers together for this month. Looks like it'll be the 3rd week of October on Wednesday. Donations would go to us. Weeeee!

(TODO update the merging of Django class with Python class)

[edit] Financial Report

Funds in bank: pretty well, so legend has it.


[edit] Membership Binder

  • Read off any names from the binder for the past month. Write a check on every open application.
  • Anyone up for joining this week (ie have four checks by their name + have two sponsors) should introduce themselves then leave the area in search of gifts (traditionally beer and a lime) for the rest of the group. The rest of the meeting should consense on whether they may join.


Jorgen was consensed on 2011-09-13 and is now a member! Alex Paul was consensed on 2011-09-13 and is now a member!

[edit] Consensus items

Notification of the forthcoming consensus item, proposed by Jake:

To bar Jay from entering the space and participating in the community.

(See Current Consensus Items page.)

Rubin felt that it would be appropriate not to kick him while he's down. The problem may already have solved itself, so we shouldn't pre-emptively make a rule.

Wish says I just saw him as just as a huge potential problem because he has some serious emotional issues, and tends to drag people down. It stopped the whole process of Noisebridge. It seems unlikely that he would be re-cuperated after a month.

Rubin says he agrees, but we shouldn't do it until after a month. Right now, we don't have an issue.

Leif feels like talking to him would be the right thing to do.

It seems like the best moment to put this process through would be after the suspension, otherwise consensus may be difficult to achieve. (AKA RUBIN BLOCKS)

The consensus is that the consensus be postponed until the month's suspension is up. ---

Getting more t-shirts. $1500 approx is allotted. Request for red shirts for trek victims, also women's sizes. Also wearable bikesheds and embroidered ... I don't know, Swiss national dress?

"Shall Noisebridge order and pay $1500 for t-shirts." is proposed for consensus.

[edit] Discussion Items

Ben K would like to talk about lighting.

I've heard rumors, made measurements, COLLECTED FACTS, while we have the lights turned on, we are drawing 2.5KW per hour. That's pprox 1/3rd of our power bill, costs hundreds of dollars a month (our last bill was c. $833). Also burned out lights that are drawing power.

We don't know what is using all the energy. So phase 1 of Operation DESTRUCTO-ENERGY is

  • Measuring. Put one measurement device on one of our feeds, already. Ben would like to spend NB money on a second device that works on the second feed. $700 will meter the whole place.
  • Once we have metering, the SF dept of environment who will come out, and audit what we are using for electricity with the hope that they can get us funding from PG&E to improve the situation. They have explicitly are NOT part of building inspection, they want to reduce our energy usage only. We have moderately inefficient lighting, but it can be significantly improved for a sum of money -- we have no idea of the costs. But that's the point of the inspection. They write down what we have, so that they can prove we aren't lying when we ask for the money from PG&E. We have a whole pile of spares and a whole pile of dead lights, which Jim and Ben will be fixing together before the inspector comes in next week or so (appointment has not yet been scheduled).

Wish asked about solar panels. Ben says we would need more money than we have -- it would take 10-15 years to recoup the costs. We could drop our powerbill by a third.

We are taking 900Watts on the front panel, and no idea what it is.

We have one two-phase panel, and we have a standard three-phase commercial panel, one to the kitchen, one to the shop. And then a third one that Rubin just spotted.

Rubin explains how the two sweatshops were divided, so the electrics are a mess, and that's why we get two measurements.

It was agreed to fund-raise for the $700, and for a consensus item to be placed next week to draw the remainder from NB funds.

"Noisebridge shall pay the funds up to $700 measuring device, after a collection has been made." is put up for consensus.

Danny would like to talk about what happened with Rob 2.0's rack, and do-but-notify

Pass the donation box for a second projector (for Church)

Rubin says: When we did the revamp of the infrastructure, when the rack was set up, it was a rat's nest, with cables hanging out. I thought it was a danger. When I unplugged it, our internet stopped working. Some people thought that there was a MITM attack. Actually it turned out to be the closet, so we fixed that.

Last night, we were whittled down a lot of servers. When we first started NB, we stated that we didn't want the place turning into a hosting facility. People put in machines, they don't tell anyone, noone leave any notes. It's a pain. Noisebridge money goes into paying for the power and the internet.

The rack in question was barely holding together, nothing was powering on, there was a melted laptop. So I decided to move it out to the sidetalk. It didn't seem to be doing anything useful, and was in the way of the fire escape. And in the spirit of noisebridge, I felt I was hacking the space, by removing the rack.

There was a 2U which was missing everything but its motherboard, but wasn't really assembled together. There was four powerstrips and ethernet tied to the machine; both were dangerously looped over the rest of the sapce.

Jorgen said when Rob came in he asked about his servers. Rubin said that they really didn't seem working like servers.

We re-iterated the rule that everything that is deposited in the space is a donation, and membership shelves have no guarantee.

Duncan points out having a name and number on an item *can* help stop it from being re-purposed.

Mike talked about how Rob had messed with public resources, like the computer he used. A lot of the pictures of the build out were deleted, and Linux installed. He destroyed three really good scooters.

Mike screamed at him last night because he depended on that computer.

Rob 1.0 had to rush , but can relate to some of Rob's behaviours, because I'm a minor version of him. But I think are some good underlying qualities, and he has potential to be more valuable asset as a lot of people do. Despite all of the negativity, I think there is their potential.

Rachel Hospodar said she was there last night to meet Rob 2.0 -- the people were Rachel, Mitch, Miloh, Jake, Leila, Mike. He seemed like he wanted to be here, but he had a hard time accepting that he had to change. It's not clear which way he has to go.

Winn: here is another sort of really faulty psychological person. He's had a hard life. He can win you over. He can be disruptive. Everyplace I go, I can tell where he's been.

Rubin felt it was inappropriate to talk about Rob 2.0 without him being here to defend himself.

Danny felt that a warning was more appropriate than throwing things out.

Rachel Hospodar says that throwing stuff out like this without warning, is an asshole move.

Evan says we have a reasonable expectation that the rack was not being used, and ignored for a good period of time, and yes, it should be thrown out. A post to the main mailing list about that, though, would be useful.

Last night at 3AM, Rachel says we had a giant argument with Rob 2.0. We tried to convince him not to be an asshole. And then Rob's response was to explain the reasoning behind that behaviour. I don't care the reason behind it, I just care that he was an asshole, says Rachel, and now I feel I'm having the same experience with you, Rubin.

It was harder to pursuade him to change his behaviour, because we had to explain why Rubin is an asshole too, and why that's sometimes okay.

Someone says they hate Rubin. Someone says they love Rubin.

Wish was a newcomer, and was made to feel not welcome, and then left, and then came back. There have been territorial games, where if I fell asleep, people say they were going to put stuff out on the street. You can take it a step further with bullshit. It can go with people who have been longer, and play it as a negative aspect. You dont' want a whole lot of game-playing. Being excellent isn't quoting being excellent. Let's just try to be excellent. We shouldn't have insider intrigues.

Duncan can see both sides of it. Rachel made a good summation: one thing I will point out, a discussion with Danny, when I first got here, I was rather feral. The music went up, and I thought it was an excellent thing to pull the wire out, and I sort of modelled that on behaviour that I'd seen in the space. One thing to do: it might be mindful, with a broad spectrum of backgrounds, our behaviour will be modelled. It might be one thing to throw away a rack. Someone might do the same with a makerbot. While there's no hard and fast boundary, giving some error or doubt would be useful.

Someone notes that Rob 2.0 did leave the space voluntarily. He should get credit for that.

Jorgen believes he may have ADD. He'll take the scooter, and be five minutes in the workshop, he'll take out eight screws, and then he'll wander off onto the computer. The thing that bothered me was the constant usage of community computers.

One of the problems with Rob, is that he was sleeping here. Kayla says she has keys for a place for him to sleep.

If you see Rob taking things apart, ask him if he is going to put things back together.

Duncan says part of the issue is that he's got a rough history as a blackhat.

Rubin: nothing wrong with being a blackhat.

Duncan: but I think he wants to change, and all of this didn't help.

Someone: As a fellow person with ADHD, part of it is you don't consider the consequences of your actions. Executive functions aren't the greatest. You just have to form habits by restructuring things. Pretty much I think the best solution just to reiterate to Rob, to not do certain things, if you see him doing them.

Jorgen says he responds well with a good sense of humor.

Everyone agreed Jorgen is a good point person to have as the contact person.

We agreed to let Rob 2.0 help himself to the racks in the back classroom.

[edit] End of Meeting

  • PGP Key Signing could happen now, check the list to see who wants in on the action.
  • Put back the membership binder in the black desk.
  • Save the meeting notes to the wiki.
  • Send a copy of the meeting notes to the discussion list.
  • Copy the Meeting Notes Template for next week's agenda and update the main wiki page's link to it.
  • Enjoy a cocktail with your fellow hacker or robot.
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