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Meeting Notes 2013 09 17
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== [[ Consensus Items History | Proposals from last week ]] == ''(Add any items which pass or are blocked to the [[Consensus Items History]] page.)'' * SuperQ (Ben Kochie) (via MCT): Noisebridge should not renew its lease when it expires; NB should attempt to exit the lease as soon as possible. * When does the lease expire? - In about 2 years; has no provision for early termination of any kind. * What does "no provision for ..." mean? - There is nothing in the lease that allows either party to provide a certain amount of notice and terminate the lease. So, it cannot be terminated. * Although we could leave tomorrow (and pay the full remaining amount) * Or we could negotiate directly with the landlord * Mitch: is this relevant? We definitely have at least one member who would block. * Adam: While proposal may be blocked, its motivation should be discussed. MCT: * this was proposed among a small circle of members, none of whom objected. * at the time, did not know when the lease expired * A number of current members are no longer coming here. * Part of discomfort stems from last week's failure to ban someone. * Attempts to renew the space appear to have stalled/failed. * Stems from thinking about what we've learned over the past couple of years, and what changes we would make. Hannah: * Main issue is that is sexually harassed here. People have been accused of being sexual predators who are still here. It is no longer hospitable. Some people don't want to come here anymore because of that * mess, smell, cleanliness Merlin: * Harassment isn't resolved by moving. You can't tell in advance who is going to be a harasser, so we can't lock them out in advance. * What we need is actual policies against harassment, etc. * hasn't stalled out: check out what Adam is doing Alaric: * NB has played vital role in life * places like this will always have problems * we persisted & failed, because didn't have energy. But these people here have the energy. * We have 2 years left on the lease * we can ACTUALLY MAKE RULES (about harassment, sleeping, etc.) Jake: * I have an alternate proposal: we could do something in-between: change our access policy * Could look like: greater emphasis on difference between memb. & non-memb. * Defined by commitment to the community * Wouldn't be like "oh this guy was here & did some stupid shit" - would be "oh XX did some stupid shit and we should talk to them about it" * Have people willing to handle that communication * There are no rules; there's no requirement of any kind, so people take advantage * Proposal: all-hours access given to Members, but others are allowed as guests of Members; welcome them, ask what they're doing, introduce yourself, are they a member? Who is sponsoring them? * Accountability Rayc: * It's a community issue, an infrastructure problem. * Many people come because they hear they can work on stuff here; waste an hour looking for tools & materials. It's a headache (find a screwdriver, connect to internet via ethernet, etc.) * Make the laser cutters, sewing machines, Makerbots work! * Work to address the sexual harassment issue * Don't just buy a shiny new Mac! * Starting a mentorship program! Rhodey: * what we're looking at is very misleading: you would probably see 10% this number of Members * it isn't an Average Day At Noisebridge; average days aren't as represented by members * Members need to start showing up * not here: oogles don't come on Tuesdays Merlin: * Lower barriers to membership. Make the committed people able to be members. * Drop fiscal barrier if we are to restrict access. * We've gotta pay rent: blah Adam: * Have keycodes for fridge, shop, bathroom, etc. - beat the tailgaters * If you're against closure, you can put your code on the wiki (still a barrier to entry) * a curb "this high" is enough to stop water flowing :) Monad: * We have a policy already in place for sexual harassment. * Need to be a property owner, rather than a renter. Hannah: * I don't think we want to maintain radical inclusion. We need to get rid of toxic people. * The policy doesn't work. "Gonna make you my bride" * Clear issue with culture: when people are being victimized, nobody speaks up. This needs to change. * I am usually confident, but felt victimized. Pigeon: * I agree that the culture here seems kinda fucked-up regarding sexual assault. I tried bringing this up, but was ridiculed. Feels like rape culture. * Deeply problematic. Air of "you have harassment problems? oh! no wonder there's no women in here" * Clutter problem * Smell: Cleaning parties! Burn incense! Kevin: * Agree with Hannah & Merlin * Support radically inclusive culture // in order to have that, some people must still be excluded * We would include more people by excluding problematic people Darius: * This is a surprising proposal; weren't we rebasing? Cynthia: * Hearkening back to the individual describing being battered: we have a culture of not calling the police, but normally, does not the community feel that it's okay to call the police in such situations? Would the community put down someone who did call the police for that? Jarrod: * To clarify rebase: those meetings have stopped, because they weren't being attended, but many people were connected by those who are still doing awesome things Naomi: * There's gonna be a lot of dΓ©jΓ vu... The people who have been here since 2008/9 * we're just tired of going through this cycle. Would be nice to start fresh. Dante: * Police: they are problematic; reinforces patriarchy? Rhodey: * If it's at the point where we need to call the police, something is obviously wrong Adam: * I am also not a fan of authoritarianism * a person expressed desire to harm themself outside the space; there are some times when it's completely appropriate to call the police * this kind of thing, you /should/ always call the police Merlin: * We should not try and DIY law enforcement. * If somebody's wavin' a knife/gun around, we want police Hannah: * If we're not at the point where people can say "stop that", we're not at the point where we can call the police. Have much more fundamental issues to address. Rayc: * we've closed off the spaces where people would camp stuff out * we have the noisebridge discuss list * maybe if we have a "problems" list & a "discuss" one -- could quarantine the drama * we're stuck with this system now, 'cause can't block, so gotta come together & start coming up with solutions Merlin: * Is the best way to address this -- not renewing the lease in 2 years? * Jump on the efforts to fix it * Or let the people who will, do their thing, and support them * Or make your own proposals for policies Naomi: * 95% of people who started space are not here, because... * Energy to put in required to fix space = overwhelming. that's why * Re: alaric, they have 30 people * It's easier to start over, rather than refactoring something that's already in place * It doesn't feel like the original space & you're not going to get the old members to pitch in Adam: * Hannah: saw stilts, they were awesome, took video (with permission!) - everybody rushed past me * I wanted regulars to help me tell you * When something happened, I had no idea, & it made me feel awful Hannah: * That will probably continue to be the case * When it's happening to you, a lot of people just shut down. Easy to say "you should speak up" Adam: * I've been harassed also & shut down. * Would like to play orientation video my sister made about rape culture * If somebody wants to come discuss with me, about a new policy, please do Hannah: * Would be much better if there were an anti-harassment policy: voted on, consensed, very clear & articulate, includes that they are no longer welcome in the space. * Makes very uncomfortable that don't have such a policy that everyone's agreed that they will uphold. * I would like to make such a proposal Rayc: * Re: Naomi - Did Linux come from Unix? * We have this OS. Maybe we're building a new one right out of it. Could be the next big hackerspace thing. Who knows! * So, Members are tired. They don't want to deal with it. * I would like to sit down with them & ask what the problems are; what we could do to improve. * Harassment policy ++ * Also: do-ocratic best practices * The community has been fragmenting; we are now defragging * I expect Members will come back, on their own time, just to see what's changed/improved Orange shirt: * Open-door policy: I'm new to SF, from the Philippines. If I'd had to know a member, never would've come in here. * There are other places where I could go, but I come here b/c like energy & vibe. * The one thing that would help fix a lot of things: strong guided-tour system. Nobody showed me around, explained the RULES!, don't break stuff, instead got "Who let you in?!" * Clean up after selves, don't break stuff: having better people in the space * Problem isn't "people come in" - just they aren't addressed Jake: * Re: lack of policy on harassment violence disrespect - we have policy "be excellent to each other" * I haven't seen it fail before * you could already put up that sign, right now! * when people would be let in, Member giving them a proper introduction, incl. Wall O' Shit You Shouldn't Do Liz: * Putting up a list on the wall doesn't make people here feel they've all agreed on it * Just back off! Don't be touching people, constantly aggro on women, showing porn on computer, making lascivious comments * You won't necessarily hear people doing it * SF Women Against Rape give free seminars * Objections to anti-harassment workshop are on NB list * Obviously something is broken; saying "be excellent" doesn't fix it Rayc: * This is a hackerspace culture problem too; it's a good start for us to lead the charge & work toward it! Pigeon: * Ambiguity of "excellence": someone's friend was accused of something that could harm that person's reputation - could be "unexcellent" * There are many grey areas that could make dealing with problems difficult, particularly given existing friendships * People like to bring up the idea that "anybody could just throw around accusations, for fun" * take care with speech * this should be a caringspace before it's a hackerspace: a Safe Space, perhaps. * nonviolent communication ++ * affinity groups to tackle these? Jarrod: * Move that we consider that the proposal to stop the lease has been blocked * That discussion on this has many different paths; it is 9:30 and we might have more traction moving onto the proposals for consensus items for next week Orange shirt: * To members paying & not coming: Many groups come in just to see what NB is all about. It's the 2nd American hackerspace? (Rayc: it's the first!) (Orange: then go edit wikipedia!) * If you wanna kill the lease, killing the legacy Liz: * We have worked hard on this space. We shouldn't be told to abandon it, and/or keep paying for it even though we don't agree with its direction, or else be blamed for its downfall.
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