* noisebridge unmeeting 05-09-2017
+ alex maker faire
+ juan mate
+ gareth philantropist
+ cowlicks meetings
+ x 5mof (not now)
+ trent announcement
+ jarrod announcement
+ george and marky - vr stuff
+ cowlicks safe space discussion
+ ryan - should we require people to use the wiki?
+ jarrod - announcement
** alex maker faire
finalizing maker faire plans and prep. simbridge? is a virtual reality
exposition of noisebridge. 3d model of noisebridge. experiences of
actual noisebridge with 360 camera. wants to capture as much as
possible of actual noisebridge between now and then. wants
jarrod - signup for maker faire is on its way to the announcement list
in the moderation queue. looking for volunteers. thurs 18, early
morning, uhaul, san mateo. friday 13:00-17:00. a little bit of
setup. after friday there's a dinner. and we can see things without
people there. saturday 10:00-19:00, sunday 10:00-18:00, then takedown,
bring things back to noisebridge. two projects: simbridge and
ordibooth. next tuesday there will be a training session. 19:30?
thex - unofficial makerfaire soire? unofficial hangout. thursday after
5mof at noisebridge. possibly official/unofficial. a lot of people can
come by. also 5mof mighyt be cool for makerfaire people to talk about
lxkpk - do we need party prep? thex - not sure, we can blow the doors
off if people want. cool.
consensus is that we should party prep. official or unofficial. thex
will look for one more person to help. multiple people offer to chip
dj? thex is planning on setting it up. we'll see if it happens.
short interlude on who opens the door.
** juan mate
order is in. this week or next week. emailed 2600 guy about when and
heads up. we should organize some people to collect it. will put that
in #group-by when we have more info. probably worth discussing where
we will store it.
thex - what's the bottom line? juan - 40 cases. some are allocated
for noisebridge, some are allocated for people. some are up for
grabs. ideally purchasable like beer for people to buy in the
space. 8-10 bottles in a case.
** trent gareth wants to be a philantropist
gareth - he's a 3d programmer trying to be in a startup. trying to
make a tool for vr makers?
lxpk - we have a 360 camera and we'd love to talk to you
trent - we should explain how this works. what's a philantropist?
lxpk - someone who wants to contribute financially and
socially. 24-hour access. being excellent to each other. sponsorship
by a member.
$500? 5 mill? what ever you want.
cowlicks - how do we get rid of a philantropist?
lxpk - a member can unphilantropize them. also what's a member? like a
philantropist but 4 weeks, two sponsors, consensus.
trent - normal noisebridge rules apply to everyone. does anyone
object to gareth? nope! trent will introduce gareth to being a
thex - what's the status of the board, treasurer, etc? can we confirm
that we have all our obligations?
jarrod - brings up a good point that we used to have an officers
page. dunno if that has been updated. but we shouldn't require people
to be on slack.
ryan - but we shouldn't require people to use the wiki too. especially kids.
trent - operational security is important too. so we've taken steps to
reduce amount of public info.
thex - single point of contact.
augur - there's a wiki list but prob not accurate.
cowlicks - board doesn't do anything. they've taken an oath not to do
anything. there for legal purposes. but some legal liability.
trent - united states law requires us to have a board.
thex - secretary and treasurer are important.
** cowlicks meetings
cowlicks - does anyone have any ideas or problems with what we do at
meetings? does anyone think our meetings are perfect? (no) does anyone have
main objections: doesn't like when people pitch things to
noisebridge. been to a couple that are very pitchy with a captive
audience. we need a way for people to find others interested but tone
it down a little bit.
darryl - people who want to pitch things should be at 5mof. ryan -
that would be great. cowlicks - if they want to pitch things they can
go to a meetup.
cowlicks - second thing: at meetings when contentious topics come up,
some people are inclined to discuss them outside of the the
meeting. think we should take the chance at the meeting to discuss
problems or drama. not necessarily bringing things to the meeting but
open discussion about how we handled things. feels like at meetings
hard things are avoided to not scare people. it
+ jarrod - all the stuff you suggested falls under the moderator's
discussion. moderator can decide. moderator could stop a pitch or
suggest saving it for another person. moderator is never required to
follow list on page. moderator should always push for how they want
meetings to run.
+ cowlicks - definitely true but this discussion is part of it.
+ thex - worthwhile time to enhance moderating notes. good to have
an open discussion.
+ lizzie - meetings are very structured, kind of boring frankly.
+ lxpk - some parts of the meeting get rushed for time reasons. more
than controversy-fearing. we can streamline certain
things. section called the manual. made a poster to pay attention
to it. a manual could be printed. the idea of the meeting is not
to require computers to participate. a printout could be
useful. we could put things there encouraging people to read and
have access to. suggestion: printed manual is actual embodiment
without having to go into whole long things.
+ luke - facilitating vs moderating. unconference facilitation model
called fishbowl e.g. two people in middle, third person can come and
kick someone out. so it's a good way to have discussions.
+ george - when you guys have meetings, you guys do talk about?
+ lxpk - we have topics.
+ ryan - twice in a row we've had unmeetings.
+ cowlicks - no hard action item. but we should speak up at meetings
about how it's being run. we should ask questions. likes idea of a
handout. suggestions: safe space, membership and philantropy are
things we should talk about.
+ lxpk - definitions can be written in full detail, even with
dissenting versions, we should have that. during the meeting we can
discuss how we think it's evolving. e.g. "how are we feeling about
having a safe space".
+ jarrod: would like to see more scaffolding on the safe space
discussion. the safe space discussion doesn't have any scaffolding
on the wiki, ideally we'll get an organic discussion. and that's
missing on the meeting
+ lxpk - the discussion page and the wiki format are designed to help
evolve content like this. we don't want to set things in stone. we
could work on things with the normal wiki process even though it can
be frustrating. e.g. editing wikipedia can be a bad experience but
noisebridge can be better.
+ thex - typed "safe space" into wiki, got a weird page referring to
the 86 page.
+ lxpk - let's fix this right now.
meet thex and lxpk after the meeting.
+ thex - has been the principal editor of the noisebridge homepage and
discussion page. has pretty much beaten back the tits and
stories. made an effort to organize things weekly.
+ lxpk - what's the page?
+ jarrod - noisebridge.net discussion page.
anyone interested in running 5mof? otherwise let's focus on the next
week, third thursday, day before maker faire.
? - what is 5mof? thex - monthlyish sometimes weekly historical third
thursday talk for 5 minutes. typically ten talks. next thursday will
be day before maker faire. one talk for ordibooth, one talk for
simbridge, hopefully some other people. hit up 5mof on the wiki. thex
is taking point, may have a conflict, can't 100% confirm whole
5mof. but will definitely be here after lizzie - can maybe mc if thex
needs it. thex - slightly larger - volunteer to make sure it goes on
announce and meetup.
jarrod - j usually does it.
thex - can jarrod be able to moderate announce?
jarrod - needs to ask #rack.
cowlicks and lizzie - thanks for making it happen.
thex - music and drink
geoge - do we livestream it?
thex - we could but don't. sometimes we record it.
george - we should do it sometime. maybe vr.
** trent has an announcmenet
trent looks around shiftily.
thursday 8pm - the library wg will be meeting. will be working on a django
and react app for the library. don't come if you know what you're
doing, but if you want to learn come. react and django rest. so probably
** jarrod annoucnement
stupid shit hackathon is this weekend. it's probably one of the
biggest events we have for the last two years. we use every chair and
seat and every working space. 150 people here all trying to find a
place for their laptops and burritos and workshops. please be
prepared + also come. coming in early saturday for cleanup. same day
as godwaffle. then after that stupid shit starts. removing things from
circumstances. if you want to come to help clean, come at 8-12 and
meet jarrod. but also come and work on projects. really cool
event. took us by surprise. now we have a welder and laser cutter.
ryan - lots of people won't be trained.
augur - one person will be here to train.
thex - who is the point?
jarrod - noah swartz
thex - also toool is coming on sunday.
jarrod - good luck.
thex - if no one has any objections he'll take the back space around church for vr stuff and toool.
cowlicks - we should ask if toool can move
thex - they moved it already
jarrod - depends on how many people.
ryan - could we fit it in turing? back room has plug access because wifi sucks.
lxpk - toool should just do stupid shit.
jatrrod- the networek connection has died every stupid shit hackathon soooo
ryan - yeah. even with wired?
jarrod - probably just a wireless.
lxpk - bring ethernet adaptor.
thex - will have at least one 5ghz network running indepedently.
ryan - who's workin on the ethernet switch in the back room?
thex - when are we doing setup?
jarrod - saturday morning.
thex - can't be here saturday mo9rning but it could be cool to drop extension cables and power stips.
lizzie - but godwaffle
thex - before staurday, church and turing.
jarrod - tables and chairs around turing and church.
will finish this discussion outside of meeting
** vr stuff
george and marky hosted a film festival in vr and it was a concept
we've been working on at altspace. was really cool. watching a 2d
screen inside an immersive theater, + q and a sessions. looking how to
develop space more. unity plugs right into it but it's still tricky.
lx and ryan will talk after.
george - 1000, 4000
lx - 5mof
george - nicolas cage's brother
** cowlicks wanted to have a safe space discussion
if you, maybe like a week ago, he saw a thing happen that made him
unsure how to handle it. wanted to have a discussion about how
noisebridge isn't very safe and how we can make it better.
in particular, someone came to noisebridge for the first time, guy
gave her a tour, monopolized her time for 3+ hours. she was friendly
but the guy wasn't picking up hints. he should have given her
space. if it's your first time here you want to be nice but he
wouldn't be surprised if she didn't come back.
tried to pull him aside without making it awkward but it didn't
work. that's something cowlicks wanted to make people aware of it. noisebridge being a safe space isn't only about harassment
thex - now that you've had time to think about it, how could you have
handled it? cowlicks - didn't do anything for
the fiorst hour, could
have been direct about talking somewhere else.
george - was there a complaint?
cowlicks - yeah I'm complaining.
george - did she complain?
cowlicks - I'm complaining. She probably received too much attention and it makes people uncomfortable. On your first time here you don't want to be
george - so he wouldn't leave her?
cowlicks - he was polite but trying
trent - what happened?
cowlicks - unresolved. letr's talk offline.
lxpk - whenever we mention what safe space is, tries to mention
this. this is the way safe space issues happen mostly. in our
discussions of safe spaces, we need to draw attention to
it. noisebridge historically has had a couple people who are beloved
but monopolizes peoples' times. it's not something most people are aware of.
cowlicks - yeah, we should do that.
lxpk - should maybe be on the safe space .
luke - there's an ambiguity around what it means to be excellent and
it's interesting because there's a big issue around social and
emotional labor. there's a burden especially put on women about
emotional labor. Maybe we should add a bit more clearness about what
it means to be excellent. some people may feel like it's excellent to
give other people all of their time. there's guilt wrapped up in
it. the safe space stuff is all about
trent - we have idioms, like "this person won't leave me alone".
cowlicks - but also she didn't ask him to leave alone.
george - can say "we can just go to the bathroom"
cowlicks - we need to make it explicit that the dude has to fuck off.
luke - to do it with kindness is important.
ryan - it can definitely be a disability
lxpk - some people have a disability but it's often just obliviousness. maybe you can put on headphones.
cowlicks - don't want to put more emphasis about what the person being
bothered should do. people aren't culpable for some kind of annoyances
and bothering people but they are if we make them aware of it. I think
most people are culpable but ignorant.
lxpk - other than the safe space discussions, how do we make this
known widely? greeting people is a good place. we should bring up
"don't monopolize time".
cowlicks - I have. and also point out anti-harassment policy. please bring it up giving a tour, especially if it's a dude.
thex - along those lines, the headphone thing, it would be nice if there was a general understood signal for "I'm here, I have something to do".
ryan - yeah.
cowlicks - it's not the responsibility of the person being harassed to signal that they need to be bother it.
thex - if it was understood that we have these headphones we could do it. it's somewhat common practice for bartenders to have codes. creating a social situation awareness or a safeword.
juan - on the door there's a piece of paper with blakc and yellowish
text about how we have an anti-harassment policy and how if people are
hanging around others it's not excellent. signs are a good way to
advocate outside meetings.
cowlicks - direct response. but we have hundreds of thousand signs
around noisebridge. we should point that out more.
thex - good. ryan - so, I understand both points. it shouldn't be the
problem of the one being harassed to respond. but also there needs to
be an ability for them if no one else has noticed to raise
attention. we need to make it happen as little as possible but no
amount of training .
lizzie - leaving will always be easier than weird cultural headphones things.
marky - on a certain level it's the person's being harassed's
responsibility. we need to create a safe space by allowing people to
tell each other to fuck off. you don't know if she was actually
(augur - this is a queue not a stack)
cowlicks - direct response. we have a problem at noisebridge where
there's very few women. there aren't going to be more women coming to
the space to use tools. women are expected to be passive and nice and
it's much easier to leave than to tell them to fuck off. we need to
explain to people that you can be monopolizing someone's time without
trying to bother them. you should give people space, especially if
it's their first time here and they want to leave.
george - when I came here two weeks ago, I was uncomfortable because I
didn't know anyone here. passing someone off and leaving them alone
sometimes makes people uncomfortable.
marky - who was more aware of the harassment policy - the new person
or the person talking?
cowlicks - it would have been great if she had felt like she could say
that. but these are nuanced situations. it can make the space
unwelcoming and I don't think if someone comes to noisebridge to do
something. this is a nuanced thing and it's something that that person
should have realized. we need to train our community a little better
and police ourselves.
george - can we have a girl show them the space?
trent - I don't think that makes any sense. the anti-harassment policy
specifically says that it includes persistent, uninvited
communication. that's harassments. your (cowlicks) perception is that
it was persistent and uninvited. do people always mention the
anti-harassment policy on tours (lizzie, cowlicks, jarrod, thex
(mentioning it)). I think the fact that there is one
luke - the boilerplate is there, and it doesn't get contested, but the
things that stick we can really emblazon in the space.
trent - there are signs.
luke - but there are bigger things.
trent - maybe we need anti-harassment art?
luke - bmw plant has little signs for don't talking to it. maybe we can circumvent social problems with
lizzie - nobody reads signs. well-known phemomeon.
trent - but pointing to signs is useful.
ben - noticed it when he went to the bathroom and thought it was cool,
as a newer person.
augur - these are jarrod's sign.
cowlicks and lizzie like em.
ben - but it's on the left, so it's hard to see when you're coming in.
jarrod - maybe the time has passed, but I feel like the conversation
was verring into "the what are the responsibilities of the person
being harassed". regardless of their responsibilities, what can
noisebridge do to lessen that occurence? that's where this discussion
should be, not "should someone say something".
thex - the thing that iv'e heard between most all of this is the
awareness factor. unawarness is the culprit. if it's part of the tour
or the and part of the community standards, if that was like the
top-level thing and this was more readily discussed. to me that's
something very different from safe spaces. be aware that people monopolize times intentionally and unintentionally, but that's not quite about safe spaces.
cowlicks - would like to push the fact that this is a safe space
issue. giving people unwanted attention *is* harassment. it makes
people feel like it's not a safe space.
lxpk - jc (thex) was saying it's not a safe space. I think it might
not register in peoples' heads as a safe space issue. but the sign
deserves to be big. maybe a comic.
lizzie - we should talk about what we can do outside of specifics of sign-making.
thex - let's continue this afterwards.
trent says we're at the end of the stack.
thanks trent for taking stack!
** ryan - wiki
different meeting probably. lxpk - it would be nice to have a concise
hand-held handout to contain all this. infospaces have zines. the zine
from longhaul infoshop might be a cool thing to have. we could talk
about it more. but it would be cool tot ake