Editing Meeting Notes 2020 05 12

{{meetings}}
These are the notes from the [https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Category:Meeting_Notes The 578th Meeting of Noisebridge]. 

help take notes at - https://pad.riseup.net/p/nbmeeting

video meeting on zoom at - https://us02web.zoom.us/j/972291454

* Date: May 12 2020
* Note-taker: Everyone
* Pre-Meeting Moderator: Pyconaut

Moderators: Pyconaut

= Meeting Summary =
FILL OUT AT END OF MEETING AND SEND TO MAILING LIST
'''One or two bullet points of high-level meeting summary.'''
TLDR what happened at the meeting:
* Announcements:
* Finances:
* New philanthropists:
* New members:
* Consensus Items: 
* Discussion Items:

=Pre-Meeting=

== [[Do-ocracy|Excellence]] ==
'''Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other.'''

(What does that mean?  How does the Anti-Harassment Policy fit into this?  Are we SURE we know what being Excellent is?  This is an important and fundamental conversation at Noisebridge, so let's give it like 120 seconds.)

Excellence is about caring for yourself, others, the space, and the community, it is about calling out when you see something wrong, and being availble to help others. Being exccelent can be doing things like taking out the trash, fixing a broken machine, cleaning up one of the areas, etc. As long as you follow the one rule, you will be welcome at noisebridge. We also have a Strict antiharrasment policy, so if you are making people feel harrased through your actions, you will be asked to leave.

== [[Participation]] ==
'''Everyone at Noisebridge is a participant at Noisebridge.'''

(What does that mean?  How do you get a door key? Access to Slack, Discuss, etc?)

There are many ways to participate at noisebridge, this includes taking a class, teaching a class, giving a presentation, using our equiptment, etc. You can also do just about any project since we run on do-ocracy. But if you think that the action or project might disturb others, please go through small c concensus and ask the community before you take any actions.
Once you come by for a bit and gain some trust from the community, you can ask for a 30 day access token which will get you in the noisebridge door from 10am to 11pm for 30 days (then it then needs to be renewed).
You can also participate digitally through our different online systems- 
noisebridge slack 
noisebridge discuss 
noisebridge wiki 
noisebridge meetup


==[[Philanthropist | Philanthropist definition]]==
'''A Philanthropist at Noisebridge has earned enough trust from the community to open and close the space.'''

(What does that mean? What do we expect from Philanthropists? How do you become one? etc)

Once you come by for a while and have a lot of trust from the community, people might start asking if you want to become a philanthropist (you can also apply right away if you think the benefits are worth it).  A philathropist is the next trust level after daytime access (30 day token) usually in escalating participation.  You get 24/7 access during non plague times, pay some money (40 to 80 dollars), you must know how to open and close the space, give tours, and introduce new people to the space. We want you to be able to help more people be able to access the space, and be excellent!  To apply you get a big M Member to sponnsor you, then you fill out a Plilanthropy pledge and read all the associated materials, then you come to a tuesday meeting to submit the application.  During that meeting you will be questioned for a bit, and then if no one objectas to you being a philanthropist, you will become one.

==[[ Membership| Membership Definition]]==
'''Membership in Noisebridge entails community Trust in Consensus.'''

(What does that mean? What do we expect from Members? How do you become a Member? etc)

Big M Members are different from just being a member of the community, this is the highest trust level of the noisebridge community, it means that everyone in the community trusts that you would make good decisions about how noisebridge can move forward. This is an annoying bureocratic level of trust, as the only theoretical benefit is that you get to block big C concensus items, and vote on who we place on our board. To become one, you need to go through a four week process, where you fill out a membership form sponsored by two big M members. You bring it to a tuesday meeting where it is submitted, your membership will be discussed at that meeting, then at the next tuesday meeting your membership is discussed again and if it gets to concensus, you will be asked to leave the room while the members present decide if they want to block you or not, if no member blocks your membership application you become a member.  For the next two weeks any big M member can retroactivly block your membership for any reason.  If you get blocked figure out why, fix the  issue and then reapply at a later time.

==[[Consensus|Consensus]]==
'''Consensus is how the Noisebridge Membership may change how Noisebridge works.'''

(How does Consensus work? What types of things are good for formal Consensus? What is small-c consensus? What is a "block"?)

concensus is the process by which things that can't be done through basic do-ocracy (things that affect others in the space.)  It has two flavors, small c and big C.
Small c concensus is the process where things that might cause slight issues in the space (events, big projects, moving rooms, etc), you just talk with the community before doing things.  Big C concensus is the process by which action are taken at noisebridge that are to big, to expensive, or to critical to be done by small c concensus. These are things like Moving, spending a lot of money, or doing legal bureucratic garbage. This is a two week+ process where an item is propsed one week (if possible you should already have the item posted in draft concensus items, and the binder). At that meeting it will be discussed for a while, then the next week it will be discussed again, and if people feel confident, it will be brought up for concencus, and if no big M member blocks the consensus items it passes and becomes a Consensed item.

==[[Guilds | Guilds Definition]] ==
'''Guilds are how groups at noisebridge organize.'''

(What is a guild? How do you join one? etc)

Guilds are groups at noisebridge that rally around a common interest. Any group can create a guild by writing a Charter AND maintaining the group according to the metaguild guidelines: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Guilds
== Pre Meeting Discussion ==

done


=Main Meeting=

== Introductions ==
'''A/S/L?!?!?!'''

*******************************
TALK ABOUT YOURSELF HERE, ETC...
*******************************

* Ryan (he/him) - exploring VR
* DAVE (DAVE/DAVE) - DAVE
* Ⅹ #inspection
* Tyler - he/him - popping in and out of meeting because he is making apple cobbler
* NinjaA - he/him - wsup fam
* boredzo - he/him - sewing, 3D printing
* Mark - games, guilds
* Tim - Biotech Tomfoolery
* Robert - Circuit Hacking Monday, Quantum Satur Day (Tea,Cookies,&QP)

== Short announcements and events ==
'''60-second description per item in bulletpoint.'''

Come to CHM online only Every monday @ 7pm Start.

Five Minutes of Fame 8p next Thursday

Pyconaut- Join me in VRCHAT (you can guess my name, pleasses message me somewear else to let me know who you are).

Pyconaut- Noisebridge joining Virtually Maker Faire.

Hello all I just got an email from the Make:team about their upcoming virtually maker faire on may 23, and asking if we want to present during it.  
I want to know what stuff all of you are interested in presenting at the event.  I am still waiting to hear more from their team about how many things we can present,  and already thought up a few proposals that I sent in my preliminary email.
  I already started our application and just need to add  projects and people to the application before I submit it.  We might end up limited to a small number of projects, so if we get a lot of project proposals I'll create a voting form to allow people to decide what they want us to present.
Here is a Google form for filling out the project information 
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdoYPbXMfxE1BSg_6b3MqK6O-AqAExxx0jPuQ1sBjORD8bPZQ/viewform?usp=sf_link
And here is a form for people to fill out their own information.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc9SeTYSMZCLbEZLeiLaB4NG5r0rwiX2Stli5-fhDbexuSf0g/viewform?usp=sf_link

Here is what I emailed their team-
"Thank you so much for reaching out, I am quite interested and on behalf of Noisebridge would like to know more about what you all are planning on doing and how best Noisebridge could exhibit.  I will let the Noisebridge community know about this and ask for our community to submit projects so I can add them to our application.  What is the timeline for applications, and what is the limit for number of workshops, presentations, project demonstrations, etc.  I am ecspecting that the linup of interested groups and presenters right now would be-
Circuit Hacking Monday (workshop)
Simbridge VR hackerspace project (presentation / demonstration)
Our hydroponics group (presentation / demonstration)
A brief history of the modern maker and hacker movement. (presentation)
How does a hackerspace like Noisebridge Run? (Presentation)
I'll also find out if any noisebridgers have projects they want to submit to the family maker camp."

Please get back to me by Friday if you want to be a part of the faire.




== [[Philanthropist| New Philanthropists]]==

none

== [[Membership| New Members]] ==

none

== Financial Report ==
'''Anarchist societies under a capitalist state need money to survive and thrive, yo.'''


* Funds in bank: 290k in bank
180k cash
110k crypto
* Noisetor (See the bulletpoints at the bottom of http://noisetor.net/finances/#summary):
* Any other details by those participating in handling our financials
* The latest financial reports from the treasurer are available at https://discuss.noisebridge.info/c/finace/39 




== Fundraising Update ==
'''How's it all going'''

none

== GuildMaster's Report ==
'''What is the current state of structural organization at Noisebridge?'''

* What guilds are active? (Read the active guilds from Guilds wiki page)
**(For each guild mentioned, ask if guild rep is present for a brief status update)
* Would you like to [https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Guilds#Candidate_Guildsjoin or start a guild]?  Checkout [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sS2OXwxTgD6nfW4b3DSGUx03GIW8p0To-hy1Lr7mADo/edit?usp=sharing%7C our guidelines] or contact MetaGuild for help.


== [[Consensus]] ==

=== [[ Current Consensus Items  | Proposals from last week ]] ===
''(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the [[Consensus Items History]] page.)''

continuation of last week emergency concensus item

=== [[ Current Consensus Items | Proposals for next week ]] ===
''(Add any new items for consensus to the [[Current Consensus Items]] page.)''

continuation of last week emergency concensus item




== continuation of last week emergency concensus item==

☆☆☆☆☆  NEW SPACE TOUR  ☆☆☆☆☆
https://youtu.be/k7uP77GRvHc

'''pyconaut:''' We've gotten a very preliminary report from David via email, since they need more time to produce a full report.

If any of the people who were in the Capp space yesterday could explain any new information you have about this space, or what next steps we need to do before we feel comfortable signing this lease agreement, 

'''Tyler:''' David would give his best overview of the space.

'''David:''' I'll call out three things, and you can look at the email for a somewhat more comprehensive list.

'''x:''' Alice who did the lease review might have some question.

'''David:''' I sent it to ya.

Additional notes (aka: teh e-mail) in #inspection on slack, will have summary and review available tomorrow as well

I'm also a co-founder of Omni Commons and did all the permitting and lease stuff and option to purchase. Also founded Tamarack Restaurant in Oakland and a couple other projects.

My main project is Safer DIY, it's zoning and legalization for folks in non-comforming buildings—artists, day laborers, etc. Legalized a million sqft in 20 yrs. I'm an FTA-trained fire inspector.

Your space is, generally speaking, really good from my high-level understanding of NB's intended usages.

There's some low-hanging fruit for your exiting system, noted in the email. Nothing blocking a lease. Rear exit door is inoperable; without that, you can't have more than 50 people in the space at a time. Bunch of things like that, little maintenance things you should do.

Electrical: I recommended something along the lines of a C-10 electrician. Take a look at the panel info inside the cover plate. Ensure that you understand what your electrical capacity is. 200A, three-phase, not sure how they're wired inside. Info for all three units was inaccessible. And I don't yet know what NB's electrical needs are in terms of load, peak load, etc. But you're NB, so you'll figure it out.

Smell test is electrical capacity is good. You're just going to have to run more distribution. A '''lot''' more.

Environmental: Because it was an auto repair shop, there are pollutants and stuff that mechanics use for cleaning out engines and such. Not enough for NB to do an enviro site assessment to figure out everything WRT hydrocarbons etc. that might have seeped into the cement. It was recently repainted, so we can't assess that visually. There's not time for that with your lease negotiation, because that can take months.

My recommendation would be to consult with an enviro contractor that produces these ESAs and just ask: Can you encapsulate cement with standard floor paint? Would that do an adequate job of blocking vapors for a place that was used with an auto garage? They might say not a big deal, don't worry; or they might say “did you use resin epoxy that's at least 1/4 inch thick” or something like that.

I don't see that subjectively as a lease blocking issue either, but if you had to slap down a new layer of paint right after moving in, that'd be a big hassle. But would recommend consulting with professionals in this area.

Because you have two exits, that's great. You'll be able to have larger gatherings than in your current space. We just want to make sure the rear exit corridor is fire-rated. Has to do with how wall assemblies are structured. You can find that out later; if it's not actually rated to hold off fire for an hour or whatever, that's not that bad. Not blocking, but something to consider, esp. if you're considering having large conferences or whatever.

It's really good that it's sprinklered. They don't look that well-maintained; you should look at the sprinkler panel, for a big tag that indicates when it was tested. Supposed to be tested every five years. See if that tag is there, and if it's not, ping the owner to get that inspected and taken care of. But you ''have sprinklers'', which is a huge win.

Last thing is accessibility: Have to think about it in planning and organizing use of the space. Bottom line for ADA is you have to think carefully about any activity that might happen upstairs that can't be accessed downstairs. No elevator, so not possible to reach upstairs. If you have meetings, for example, upstairs but not downstairs, that could be a potential ADA concerns. If you got an ADA specialist to give you a report, that'd be the main thing they'd be asking about. A CASp
https://www.dgs.ca.gov/DSA/Resources/Page-Content/Resources-List-Folder/Certified-Access-Specialist-Property-Inspection


It's not that you have to have a 1:1 match of everything upstairs must also be downstairs, it's that it has to be possible to do things downstairs.

Because you have so many members, you need to think about that. People do file accessibility lawsuits over such things. But that can be solved by just planning use of space in a flexible way.

It'd be very helpful for y'all to have a basic floor-plan of the top and bottom floors, just to show where you need to put fire extinguishers and have evac maps and stuff.

I haven't looked at the zoning because I know someone else did that, but you could probably expand your range of activities there compared to your old space. Could have large events there, which is great.

That's basically my feedback based on a visual inspections.

WRT the attorney [Alice]: In most commercial leases, the building owner is responsible for the building envelope and common areas and stairs and stuff. They are changing the occupancy from S1 (storage, vehicle repairs, etc.) to F1 (factory, custom manufacturing) and when you have a change of occupancy, if you were to put in for a building permit, that change of occupancy would cause SFDDI to assess whether you were required to bring other systems up to the 2019 building code.

'''Alice:''' I am a transactional tax attorney. I coordinate with real estate law specialists. I apologize; none of them are with me tonight.

We did not understand this to be S1; we understood this to be an F1.

'''David:''' Vehicle repair is classified as storage, S1. That's the major occupancy group. This happens a lot, by the way; it's rarely enforced. Rare that a Building Dept. would come down on an industrial space that switched back and forth between storage and manufacturing. But, technically, that is the major occupancy. I don't think it's a major concern, just putting it out there.

Main thing WRT the lease is it would be nice if there was language in there that said that was the property owner's responsibility.

For example, say you take out a permit to build a room with a drop ceiling in it. SFDDI's looking for money, and because COVID, and depressed tax revenues, so they say “you're changing occupancy, so now all the light fixtures have to be energy-efficient; you have to show Title 24 compliance for the whole ground floor”, or something.

No guarantee that would happen, but if it does, you'd want to fall back on the lease to say it's the property owner's responsibility.

'''Alice:''' The issue we identified with zoning review was exits. Do you know whether the fixed windows or exits requirement was satisfied?

'''David:''' At least one skylight is operable. Usually residential is the only one that requires operable windows.

'''Alice:''' What about the garage door?

'''David:''' A roll-up door is not technically a legal means of egress. So you can't count that as a pedestrian egress system. But it's OK because you do have a person-door that opens into the parking garage. 

I don't have the floorplan, but my instinct, having done this 100 times, for NB's use, esp. using F1 occupant load factor, you're not going to exceed your exiting capacity because you have two exits. If you go out the gate into the back hallway behind all the units, you've got what appears to be a fire-rated corridor to the street.

'''Alice:''' WRT the limitation that all windows and exits have to be fixed, could you provide feedback on whether the garage door violates that requirement for light mfr'ing?

'''David:''' ???

'''x:''' The sticky bit is we're within 50 ft of an R3 residential in the apartment abutting the building. In order to qualify w/o restrictions for light manufacturing, you can only have fixed windows. The question is whether the roll-up door is an issue WRT proximity to residential.

'''David:''' I'd have to review it in the zoning, but I'm not super concerned? I guess?

It would seem extreme to me for a building to have no operable windows. If you're doing hot work, such as a room that has fumes or combustible dust, everything's supposed to vent to the roof not the street. And it's a commercial building. I don't see what having a fixed window, if it's in a contained room and being actively vented, that would block that. Extremely common for industrial spaces to have loading docks and roll-up doors and residential above commercial and things like that.

I'd have to look, but it probably pertains to hazardous uses, H-class uses. Are you saying that the fact that the windows and skylights are operable is a problem? Because you could just… make them inoperable. Then you'd have to have active ventilation.

Light and ventilation are required for industrial uses.

'''x:''' Going back to Alice's report, part of the light manufacturing review: Premises located within 50 ft of RH3 district; premises must be completely enclosed. If not, proposed use cannot be light mfring.

'''David:''' WRT zoning? I'd have to look at all the zoning classifications, but there's no zoning clearance in SF at all. This seems like something that would be… I guess I need to review this more. Let me put it this way: If you had a building with no windows and maybe only a door? It still has to have ventilation systems; it has to exhaust off of the roof, and have at least artificial light and ventilation. So whether you open a window and get fresh air through a window, or vent through the roof, it still has to happen. There's no way you can just not have airflow.

I guess your concern is that the roll-up door would…?

'''x:''' Yeah, the venting is one question for fumes and extraction and filtering; Alice, if you can clarify, I think the concern is not having a roll-up door would be unfortunate but the concern was having one with proximity to residential and light mfring.

'''Alice:''' Right.

'''David:''' An auto shop has fuel, gasoline from engines, has to get cars in and out, so it might be a “legal non-conforming usage”.

'''Alice:''' Will check with my colleagues, but this might be a difference between occupancy and zoning. Will circle back on that.

David, for your benefit, how this is currently proposed to be handled in the lease is we're currently going in without having confirmed whether there are any zoning issues, WRT any issues you've raised on the occupnacy side, or anything like that. But we do have a termination clause if we are unable to get a letter of authorization. So that's the protections the lease currently has, and if it has to be expanded to cover more than just zoning, it'd be helpful for me if you could clarify what regulatory interference we should be worried about and bake into our termination clause.

'''David:''' Sure. Just to give everyone some perspective, I typically live in a world of worst-case scenarios. Things where you have severe enforcement going on, in a makerspace or building. I think a threat-mitigation perspective. In practice, unless you're annoying your neighbors, most people probably aren't crossing as many t's and dotting as many i's as you are.

Light mfring is different from custom mfring is different from R&D. You may have to pick some description that doesn't have this onerous 50-ft rule.

'''Alice:''' We're on the cautious side here because we're being forced to leave already. We've already been targeted, and is in a worst-case scenario. So the approach is to assume worst-case scenario.

'''David:''' Well, that's the world I'm in, one of full compliance. If, for example, you're doing everything by the book, and you have something producing fumes like a laser-cutter, and you've fit out that space properly, it seems unlikely that Planning will come after you. If you have welding and non-explosive electrical outlets and non-combustible floors, and you're practicing things safely—I feel like Planning steps in when things are unsafe.

'''pyconaut:''' The only reason any of this came up is because of people who told the City to come after NB because they thought we weren't up to code. We want to make sure that doesn't happen again.

'''David:''' Absolutely. I'm usually in a reactive mode and frequently going on inspections with the planning enforcement people, and haven't had this particular thing called out, but lemme research this and what it means for you, like if you can't operate your roll-up door or something.

There's a way I can ask this that has nothing to do with NB, just “is this a thing? how would you interpret this?” and just see what they say. Because that's pretty significant; that roll-up door is pretty… I can just see that impacting your utility of the space, not being able to use it.

Outside of the constraints of the zone, if you get far enough up the chain in the Planning Dept, you do get people who are reasonable and have ultimate discretion.

You could construe things that are light manufacturing as an Accessory Use because they're like 30% of the floor footprint or something. There's ways to get to compromise.

'''Tyler:''' We have a good working relationship with Sup. Ronen's office. She's offered assistance when needed on zoning and planning.

'''David:''' They're planning to preserve PDR in the Mission like crazy.

'''Tyler:''' Yeah, they're committed to us staying in the Mission.

'''David:''' But Alice has a good point and I'll look that up. I've never seen it enforced, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.

'''x:''' The main thing is to check in on structural, electrical, fire, enviro, to help us make a determination. Still some open questions on zoning, but where should we go from here? Do we need to go further with addenda in the current agreement, or do we feel comfortable to keep things moving and have fallback provisions in the lease?

'''David:''' I haven't had time to look through the lease, I'm sorry, but I will. I'm not a lawyer, just someone who's had to negotiate a lot of leases. WRT the building systems, and things to check out: I've gotta circle back on the issue Alice brought up, but I can't think of anything else particularly blocking. Some things that don't comply, but nothing that's a deal-breaker.

Need to get a C-10 electrician to give you some more comfort in your electrical capacity. To me, it looks good, but we should get one. I've asked one if they can help.

Also need to get input from someone who does ESAs and EIRs etc. A cement floor in an auto garage, encapsulated with paint—how effective is that, assuming the usual pollutants? It may be a very straightforward answer, but if we talk to a couple of those people and they come back “it's a death-trap, don't, don't park your chair over where the auto lift was”, we should look at that.

In terms of the building systems, it seems like a relatively modern building. There's just maintenance problems. I didn't see any manual pull-stations for the fire; almost every EXIT sign had a dead battery; broken doors—that's not gonna block you. Ground-floor bathroom needs to be fixed up to be accessible, but there's room to do that.

On first blush, I don't see anything. There's always the eventuality in a 10-yr term that something that happens sometimes—Alice can keep this in mind for the lease—often people don't get permits to do work, and that comes up later, and you don't wanna be on the hook for that. Maybe a staircase got rebuilt and no-one got a permit and they want you to retroactively permit it.

There's nothing that can't be fixed, but in terms of the lease, there's nothing blocking it. Things that can come up later, but we don't have to anticipate every possible thing. But if possible, the building owner is responsible for things like that, not you. And if someone didn't take out a permit in the past to do whatever, you shouldn't be on the hook for it.

A lot of the triple-net leases I see sometimes are dicey in that regard, but my skim of your lease is not as bad. It's just protecting yourself.

The building is good. I brought one of our principal architects through and he didn't have any major concerns. Our main concern was exits; we saw the rear exit and thought you're in pretty good shape.

Enviro: I'd try to get a consult on that WRT the ground floor and encapsulating cement. Electrical.

I haven't done any extensive permit analysis, or analyzed any of the previous zoning entitlements or anything like that. Was just there yesterday. From what I understand, it's not an issue so far.

I don't see any red flags.

I'll look at it more tonight, and surrounding uses as well.

'''Alice:''' Thank you.

'''David:''' Usually we produce a pretty thorough report and you can just take your time reading through it. Will get it to you in… idk, a couple days? Will definitely look at the restriction of being within 50 ft of a residential zone and not having windows.

'''Alice:''' I'd be happy to send you our zoning report.

'''David:''' I think I have it and skimmed it and it looked pretty good. I just haven't ingested the full dump on this.

Did you produce the zoning report, or someone else?

'''Alice:''' Primary author was Rachael Rakowski. I can loop her in; she's a zoning specialist within our real-estate practice.

'''David:''' I'll look it over carefully. I'm usually more prepared, but I knew y'all were in the middle of lease negotiations and wanted to give first impressions. Right now, can't think of anything super-blocking.

'''x:''' Any quick follow-up questions?

'''David:''' Love NB and your project. It's so formative and inspirational for so many other projects. Anything I can do to help y'all, I'll do it. I'll get back to you on that one zoning issue. If someone can get me Alice's email so I can copy her, I will.

[Additional notes (aka: teh e-mail) in #inspection on slack, will have summary and review available tomorrow as well]

[exit David]

'''pyconaut:''' For folks who got here after the start of the meeting, quickly let them know: We have a new YT video for the Capp St. address. Will share it in the Zoom chat again so people can watch it. It's a 360° video, so you can rotate the perspective. So, for anyone in this meeting who haven't been in the space yet, please watch that video so you can see it.

You can also see a somewhat accurate floor-plan in #new-space on Slack where we got the document about the building recently. Wanted to see if x has any info from the 4:44 meetings last week, since people at the last meeting wanted us to put a lot more research into the building before we signed the lease.

x, do you have any info that you think would be relevant to share?

'''x:''' Yeah. Since the last meeting, talked to a couple existing commercial inspectors around options there. Those reports would cost about $1k and cover structural, mechanical, and electrical inspection. Given our use and application and that in our lease the landlord's responsible for those things, we're in good shape without that. We got connected with Safer DIY spaces, whom David was from, and they walked through the building and didn't see any major concerns on that front.

On the physical building itself, we're pretty comfortable with how everything is. New building, just basic maintenance things to be done. From an inspection-specific side of things, that phase is pretty good, so now it's a matter of clarifying concerns around zoning and other issues there.

Also all indications from everyone involved is that we can move forward and it's a good idea to move forward, as we have fallbacks in the lease.

If there's any more direct questions, I can take over taking notes for a bit.

'''pyconaut:''' Thank you very much, x.

A couple other things I want to mention is that before one of the meetings last week, a couple of us hopped on a call with Humanmade in the Design District and talked about how their build-out went and things we might want to look into, including permits for our wood-shop related to dust evacuation, and one related to our metal-shop and welding, as well as if we need vent from the wood-shop to outside, it is not called an exhaust vent, it's a pressure relief.

Legally, those are two different things, and one (pressure relief) can go out the side of the building, whereas exhaust has to go through the roof. Based on discussions, we wanted to do a pressure relief. We'd need an enclosed room for our dust-collector to suck all the dust into and then that room would have a direct pressure relief to the outside. That can be filtered if we want as well.

Also, it's just a good thing to have the dust extractor in its own room because it can be pretty loud. Not that the table saw or any other tools are all that much quieter.

'''Tyler:''' Based on that call from Humanmade, their zoning is Light Manufacturing with an accessory use of Assembly for events. It seems like they confine assembly for one room, specifically for assembly. It's possible to get short-term permits for assembly, but better in the long-term to have it as an accessory use.

'''Py:''' Accessory use discussion, special permit requires annual renewal. At noisebridge previously we've had to get one day permits for events related to gatherings. Look at being able to fast track permits, with neighboors nextdoor, be excellent, don't piss anyone off.

'''Alice:''' A number of issues and questions based on feedback, a lot of small improvements and question about estimates and quotes. Can we get some ball park figures. Costs over an above base rent etc. Lease was negotiated under assumption we wouldn't have to spend a large amount. Cost benefit could change, and we are in a stronger negotiating position. 

'''X:''' That is something we have discussed. We also need to define what we want in the space, and continue conversations beyond this meeting.

'''bfb:''' (asks a question)

'''Alice:''' I think we could have an minimum viable product. approach, but with the community being decentralized the way it is, but it'd be hard to agree on a MVP. Realistically, we should include all existing uses to cover folks who aren't at these meetings and expecting to use the space.


'''Alice:''' Nothing about NB's operations is secret in any way. We had an understanding when we entered into the Letter of Intent, and we do due diligence and that gives us an answer we didn't expect, we don't have to give a whole bunch of justification, just say this is our new negotiating position. We haven't entered into anything legally binding, so it's just a matter of how to negotiate.

'''bfb:''' Just concerned that if we push too hard based on the improvements we want to make to the space, it could go south.

'''Alice:''' Sure. As an attorney, my role is to identify opportunities.

'''X:''' How should we best proceed from here?

'''Alice:''' Conservative approach would be to not sign the lease without... Would want to understand this week the exit & window requirements. If we could throw around numbers required for making these changes by the end of this week, that would be good.

'''X:''' I will help coordinate/connect people around this.

'''pyconaut:''' One thing to mention is that I'm happy David bought up the CASP inspections. We should see if David possibly knows anyone that does that. ADA compliance is something that is critical to a large number of NB community members who currently can't use our current space. Finding out if we can create a stair-a-vator to the second floor would be a very big deal to getting a number of those people on board. Most of whom are big-M Members.

https://www.dgs.ca.gov/DSA/Resources/Page-Content/Resources-List-Folder/Certified-Access-Specialist-Property-Inspection

'''Alice:''' I will include that in our list of this-week items.

'''pyconaut:''' Also, on having people get on board with some of the moving stuff: I am going to re-paste the volunteer sign-up form for helping us move. Not just physically moving, but building out the new space and adding folks to relevant Slack channels that are already having discussions about what we need to do.

So, please fill this out if you want to help in any way. I'll paste it right HERE:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdJO4VBmaw5xCfJuocV9BqgeDpZaBDzvMJ3_gxTmjIo65HA2A/viewform?usp=sf_link

Because we'll figure out exactly how many people some of these things need. We have a lot that we need to both pack up and move, but building out is definitely what it sounds like will be one of the important things, and we need to figure out ''what'' to build out before we move.

We need to figure out whether the floor is properly sealed, and, if not, do that before we move in—and we need to know how much it would cost. Would it require an inch of resin? For a 3000-sqft, an inch of resin, that could be $4–5k in literally just resin, not including cost of installation.

I haven't done any resin installations; I thought about it. But resin is expensive, and there are other options that we might be able to go after for the floor.

No matter what, we'll want to put grit in the floor in the wood- and metal-shop, and probably proper fire-proof tiles on the real or fake walls in the metal-shop. Just because of high temperatures with welding.

So, build-out is going to cost some money. But we also have a pretty good opportunity right now to get free plywood sheets because of all the closed-down buildings in the Mission. We can just ask them, when they're done with the lockdown, just send all your 4-by-8-ft plywood sheets over to NB; we can use them.

We might even need to pick them up ourselves, but that shouldn't be too difficult considering the number of NBers who have some sort of transpo.

What other comments do people have?

'''nthmost:''' I know there isn't an end to lockdown declared yet; I haven't been to the last two meetings, so has there been any sort of thinking about how/when we're targeting a move? Like, we haven't even signed a lease yet, right?

'''x:''' Earliest possible would be 30 days after SIP ends. If it's not extended May 31, we'd be able to be in the space July 1.

'''pyconaut:''' That's when the lease starts. We'd be able to start moving in once we sign the lease and make our down payment. Could give us even more than 30 days to start moving in.

'''x:''' There's significant restrictions, but it is specifically permissible to do renovation and commercial construction and moving. We have to have a protocol and follow certain guidelines, but it is a thing we can do between now and whenever we start occupying the space under the lease.

'''Alice:''' The lease is drafted so it doesn't begin under 30 days after SIP is lifted. The landlord would probably love us to move it to an earlier time, so, that's something we can change, but FYI, it would require a modification.

'''nthmost:''' What's the response been like from the volunteer form?

'''pyconaut:''' A lot more people signed up from last week. I can port this over to a spreadsheet pretty quickly.

Looks like a lot of people want to help with deconstruction and packing. Right now, some of the ones we might need more people on are things like ADA compliance. So I do think a couple people in that group besides me are pretty dedicated to it.

Other things like packing up specific items is pretty understaffed, but also when I visited NB the other day, it looked like quite a bit actually had been packed up.

So, it looks like we have quite a lot of people on board for helping out. Considering what the City probably requires for us being organized while moving, we might need to create a timeline for who's in the space and only for a certain amount of time.

So, I might try creating a timeline thing for moving each section. But, all of that stuff requires us to make sure we have the new space in enough order that we can move in. So, things like figuring out the floor have to be done before we can even try to start moving in, even if we signed the lease. Same with things like, I'm wondering if we'd be able to have electrical done while we're moving in. I'm quite sure that ADA compliance could be worked on during the move-in process. We should try to find out more from David about what are immediate steps for making sure the building is move-in-ready right when we sign the lease.

Also, possibly try to create a cost estimation for each part of the build-out over the next, like, six months. Sounds like would be electrical, ADA, and making sure the wood- and metal-shops are fully compliant, and any chance we need to drill a fume exhaust or pressure-relief vent through one of the walls.

I think those are probably our main cost points right now.

'''Tyler:''' Just to clarify, we have to consider what NB is and how we operated for awhile. nthmost is here, maybe she can [garbled] move-in-ready when we moved to 2169. We've been there for ten years.

Some of these things, there's going to be a lot of construction up front, but it's not like we can't have someone in the space until we have exterior ventilation in the wood-shop. We can do some things while we're moving in for other things.

'''nthmost:''' We don't want to hold up our hands to say “hold on, hold on, community, for a couple months before we jump in”. We run the risk of community attrition.

Moving into 2169, we created more members than we lost in that time, because it's fun to build stuff. At least hackers find it fun to build stuff. So our build-out should not feel like someone else's build-out. We should bring people in to help, in a staged way.

The difference between now and 2169 is we'll have some of these things figured out vs. tripping over them at inopportune times.

So we don't have to figure out all of this up front, but we do have to know what our targets on.

'''pyconaut:''' That makes a lot of sense. I'm trying to think of if we need to get quotes, if they're quite a bit of building improvement, would we want to try to negotiate the lease any further for lower rent?

Because it does seem like there are community members who find the rent high. Which, yeah, $9k/month with 3%/yr increase is a lot, but it's also very cheap for SF. It's below $2/sqft. Talking with Humanmade and other places, and they were below $2/sqft, and we said we're at $1.50, their jaws dropped.

So, for people who think we're overpaying: Don't misunderstand how hard we've already worked to get it down to the price it's already at.

But, yes, it's still a price increase, so we need to think carefully about how we move forward with this build-out, and what is critical at the beginning of the build-out.

Like, we could wait on some of the electrical. We do need an expansion, including 240VAC outlets for the laser-cutter, kiln, any actual high-end woodworking or metal-working machinery. A lot of the really good equipment is all 220.

'''x:''' If we're going to get quotes, we need to be specific about what we're going to get quoted. Let's divvy up the space, and have folks take on different areas and knowledge. I can work to develop those into actual quotes from contractors.

'''nthmost:''' Brief comment on the rent thing: I don't think it's useful to think of it as objectively high or low. To Alice's point, we should be using leverage because we're not a millionaire non-profit. If we have an opportunity to lower rent, we can conserve our war-chest.

I don't think we're at risk of losing the deal if we nudge on it a little bit, but that's just my two cents since I'm not going to be the doer here.

'''pyconaut:''' Do we have other people with comments?

'''bfb:''' We might be creating barriers to a successful move, but it sounds like we have it handled, so it's not a concern I have anymore.

'''pyconaut:''' One project I do want to mention to people who want to help start with some of the research is over on #rack and #unicorn, as well as in a couple places on Discuss, there's been discussion of build-out of our intranet. Our Ethernet drop-downs, our routers, our servers, our computers, our APs. That's starting to be discussed if you have any input on that. Check on Slack and let me post the Discuss info:

https://discuss.noisebridge.info/t/272-capp-network-planning/1685/2

Then there's also been some work on #the-bike-shed project, which is building out our building out our new access-control system for the new space. RFID readers, solenoids for opening and closing door-lock mechanisms, and a bit of software, some Raspberry Pis, so if you want to help with that, that's something you can help with to get us up and running quickly. If we don't have an access control system, we're going to be going by key, which might be inconvenient for some folks.

I think that's one of the projects that should try to be built somewhat quick. Once we start moving, people can be divided between moving physical stuff and actually installing stuff in the new space, because there's going to be things like if we want to [audio fuck-up]

'''pyconaut:''' We'll need some sort of access control whether it's keys and Ethernet thrown out the back, because once we're in the new space we'll want to plan and talk with people in the old space.

Any help is good help.

'''boredzo:''' The two main goals of #the-bike-shed project as a new system are to be robust, and easy to expand to multiple doors.

'''pyconaut:''' We will need the wood-shop tools: The sliding miter saw, the table saw, etc. It won't be fun, but we can do it.

'''x:''' I don't want to lose track entirely, but we need a lease before we can start doing anything on the space. What are our blocking issues on moving forward on that? I'm not clear how comfortable folks are with the lease as-is. If we're working toward a lease we can agree with next week, what do we need to change and what doesn't need to change?

And, timing? How many care if we have a week next week vs. end-of-month?

'''pyconaut:''' Yeah, that's a general everyone question. Using the yes, no, and more options in the Zoom participants tab, I think it'd be good to see how many people want to move forward with which things.

* Are people fine with our current lease terms? Y:2 M:1 N:1

People should read over our lease and also watch the #new-space video, check in the #new-space channel for other info, because we want everyone to trust their own decision that everyone here knows exactly what they want out of NB moving, and that we're able to try to make sure we move forward in a way that's comfortable to the NB community.

'''bfb:''' I feel the question somewhat is what I was getting at earlier in terms of next steps. A lot of what we discussed with Alice and David today was reviewing the lease, getting addendums to protect us, renegotiating the price, getting contractors in. I don't understand, are you asking if we do those things are we comfortable, or are we comfortable with it as-is?

'''Tyler:''' I think the valuable question is, are we comfortable as-is? Because if we ask for lower rent and they say no, do we just not move forward then?

'''pyconaut:''' Current terms. Or else do we want to negotiate lower terms once we have more info on what we're going to do in terms of early-stage build-out.

I think a good question right now is, do we want to wait on the lease while we get contractor pricing for things before we try to go forward with the lease in the consideration that if we get those prices, we want to negotiate the lease further?

'''dan:''' I would encourage people to consider two possibilities. One, we sign the lease as-is, and next month we see the building next door to 272 is on the market for $8k and has 10k sqft. We'd feel bad. The other hypothetical is we ask for $8k and whatever better conditions, and it falls through, someone else scoops it up, we're at square one.

Which would suck more?

Look at that arbitrary binary option to guide your choice. If there's some nuance that could be added, sure, think about the details. But the big picture is, this is great. I would have no regrets if we went ahead and then next month something else was on the market for $8k. A kilobuck here or there is not a big deal; the big question is are there any disasters we can avoid?

'''tim:''' I don't think there's a dichotomy between negotiating the lease further and being OK with the terms we have. It's OK to be OK with these terms and try to get better terms.

'''nthmost:''' I agree with everything that Dan just said and everything Tim just said. There are ways to negotiate that are not aggressive. We could say, there's a pandemic, and we don't know what our revenue will be—don't know if that's true, but it's an example. We think our move-in costs will be $x, can we get a reduction by $x?

I think the terms of the lease are good. I don't think we should be casting around for a different location; I'm happy with this location.

We can leverage the downtown on the economy. Maybe ask for respite on the first two months or something.

'''pyconaut:''' We also should get input from even more people in the general community. Might see about posting a little survey on Slack and Discuss to try to get more people's opinions. That requires people to fill out a survey, which is kind of a biased response. Surveys are terrible; I love them.

'''bfb:''' I guess, to clarify, price-wise, fine, whatever. Please continue to negotiate, and get David to look at it and get addendums that might protect us. That'd be my only slight discomfort with the lease right now.

'''x:''' One of the big things that they tend to look at in the leases is adding a first-right-of-refusal clause. Their ultimate goal is to get the DIY space owning the space. That's something they try to offer as an addendum potetial. We have the option of taking things as they are, but we have a range of options. Their take is you can ask, but don't have to be particularly attached to getting that.

'''bfb:''' That sounds awesome. Would be a great thing to be in there.

Asking the people who've been negotiating the lease: Is it a good idea to be working with David and Alice on this?

'''Tyler:''' If he has additional items, it'd be worth following up.

We did ask for FROR initially and didn't get much response from the landlord on that. But if David has additional recommendations on the lease, we should push for them.

But to me it's a little bit not-in-good-faith to ask for additional changes to the lease. We submitted a redline with all of the additional changes we requested. That's supposed to be all of the changes we want, and they accepted those terms. So it's a little bit like going back and asking for more after the landlord already agreed to it. Starting a 10-year relationship on the wrong foot.

'''dan:''' We should only push for changes that protect ourselves.

'''Mark:''' I just wanted to say that as Tyler said, we've been doing the redline thing. It would probably be the good faith thing since we got what we asked for. But it doesn't close us off for negotiating since we do have a clause that the lease can be modified through an agreement in writing... Assuming we start off with a good working relationship with our landlord, we can modify the lease in good faith with them in the future should we ever want to. Things can always be amended.

'''pyconaut:''' I think there's one thing that is rarely amended, which is we could lower our rent. Theoretically a possibility, but I don't know many landlords that are excited about lowering their income.

'''Jade:''' Earlier, we mentioned perhaps wanting to sign the lease sooner than before a month after … like, the same time our lease ends at 2169. I'd feel more comfortable keeping that date the same and not signing up to pay rent next month, when there's so much uncertainty around will places be open and do we want a new space and to deal with that then?

'''Tyler:''' The current start date is 30 days after the end of shelter-in-place. That gives us a 30-day buffer. I think that that's a useful period of time, because if we signed it now and SIP ends 2 weeks from now, that's 45 days of moving time before we're paying rent. That's time to give 30 days' notice to our current landlord that we're moving out.

I don't think we'd be signing with the idea that as soon as we start, the lease period starts.

'''pyconaut:''' Only situation is if we somehow take a lot longer to sign our lease from the end of quarantine, which I don't see any major roadblocks to us finishing before quarantine ends, unless we find some crazy thing.

'''boredzo:''' I am dubious that SIP will end in 2 weeks. The whole point is to spread the case curve over a long period of time. I am currently expecting that SIP will go on for a while.

'''Tyler:''' It's possible, but bc places are already starting to open back up, we don't know. It's best to assume it'll be the actual date.

'''boredzo:''' Yeah, I tend to be against speculation in general and am not advocating any changes to the lease on that basis.

The other thing I wanted to say, WRT to negotiating for lower rent: People have been saying we should push for lower rent because the economy is tanking and it's turning into a renter's market, but flip side of that is that this is a market where landlords are pressed and not eager for lower rent. It's something to be aware of.

'''nthmost:''' That's why we should negotiate in a person-to-person manner. We're starting a ten-year relationship here. Our position should be like, hey can you be understanding, we weren't expecting this pandemic any more than you were, our fundraising is tanked, etc....

Since we don't mind the lease as it is, our position should be, is there anything we can do here?

'''bfb:''' To me it seems like we're in the midst of due diligence. We had David in the space yesterday. We should give it another week before moving forward with Consensus on signing the lease.

'''Mark:''' I agree.

'''pyconaut:''' One thing we could look at is, instead of lowering the main rent, we could lower the percentage of increase per year. Right now the landlord probably wants a certain amount of money upfront.  And decreasing the yty increase will help us more then it will hurt them.

'''nthmost:''' That might be reasonable thing to work on as well.  With unemployment and depression economy there will be a logical decrease in the year to year fundraising, 

'''Tyler:''' I think the least aggressive thing would not even change the lease terms; it'd be to take anything David comes up with, and make that a precursor to move in. Fixing the emergency exit doors and things like that. The lease does say that the building will be delivered in proper condition.

'''nthmost:''' Yeah, things you learn in the course of due diligence provide a pretext for renegotiation.

'''pyconaut:''' Anyone else want to be on stack?

I think it sounds like a lot of people think we should continue with our due diligence process and see where we get by next week.

'''nthmost:''' What else are we going to do for the next couple weeks?

'''Tyler:''' Could be moving.

'''nthmost:''' OK, yeah.

'''Tyler:''' Or hiring a contractor or electrician to come in.

'''nthmost:''' I wanna get a feel for whether we should open a dialog with the wider community on going a little bit rogue if SIP doesn't go the way we need it to. I also see that this might get extended for months. In which case, our lease start doesn't trigger, right?

And in the course of that time, we will suffer more and more community attrition, even if we do things perfectly and hold online fundraising events or whatever.

Maybe we move earlier than we're supposed to.

'''bfb:''' I believe that's an option that's available to us, and Tyler has said the landlord is happy with us moving in earlier.

It's also possible SIP might ''ease'' out. Maybe the City helps us out. Really that 30 days was there to protect NB rather than preventing us from growing and evolving into the new space.

'''Robert:''' I would like to see the inspection of the front door and a few small things. The larger question I have is if the SIP “ends”, and we're starting to end and we're starting to move in, and SIP kicks back in because of the second surge.

If we move in and shit happens, how does that looks?

'''Tyler:''' There's a termination clause that if on the City and state level we're not allowed to continue operations, we break the lease.

But in the case of SIP kicking back in, it might be wise to have a rent-break clause.

I can send that question over to Alice.

'''Robert:''' Good idea, because I have a feeling there'll be a second wave. I'm seeing a lot of people out there now, whether or not they're supposed to be.

If we moved in and that happened, even then the long-term relationship we could form would be more beneficial to NB long-term than any of this "cylon" shit we're dealing with.

'''nthmost:''' I also believe we're going to have a second wave.

'''pyconaut:''' What happens if we sign the contract and start building stuff out when we think the situation is going to end, and then SIP lasts another 8 or 10 months? If it lasts into the fall, and then we get another New Year's wave of it, and it just continues, and now we in a sense have a “working” lease on two different buildings, one of them we aren't paying for yet because it's our “30 days after SIP” has not happened for a year.

'''Tyler:''' I believe, by that point in time, we would move our stuff into the new building and close the lease on the old building.

'''pyconaut:''' Then we could theoretically be in that space for a year w/o paying rent.

'''x:''' Our stuff could be.

I like that we're talking about different scenarios, but the other community conversation that'd be healthy to start/continue is, how do we want to continue to exist at NB for the rest of the year if we're not going to be able to pack a hundred people into the space anytime soon? What does the current expectation look like?

'''dan:''' SPACESUITS! Everybody who walks in the door, you get a NB spacesuit!

It's the new NB space program! Maybe even get astronaut Chris Altman back!

'''pyconaut:''' Hazmat suits could be a way we could do this. I'm building one right now that would need level-3 hazmat certification. But yes, if we properly air-gapped NB, we could be a space that could do stuff.

I have one quick thing to mention: If we are theoretically not paying rent for a year, one good lease term that might be nice is if we decide to start this lease and move, and say “instead of waiting until 30 days until SIP ends, we'll pay you half rent just to store our stuff in the building?” So we can break our current lease at 2169. That would currently still mean that landlord is getting more money than he's currently making right now, and he knows that once SIP ends, we'll be paying the rent we agreed to. But overall, this would help both of us tremendously: he'd be making money, and we would not be spending as much money as we currently are in our current space, and we'd be in a better space.

'''boredzo:''' There are both a City SIP order and a statewide SIP order.

'''pyconaut:''' It's whichever ends last.

'''boredzo:''' Also, 30 days after SIP ends—but what if it restarts? Is it only the first time?

'''pyconaut:''' Good point. I'm pretty sure it's after the first time. If both SF and California end their SIP, then 30 days after that, even if one of those re-starts SIP, we'd currently be paying rent after those 30 days.

But yeah, if we could addend it to if SIP re-starts, we could have a reduced rate rent, that'd be something to put into the lease agreement, because that could severely affect our outcome on being able to pay money. And I'm pretty sure the landlord would rather us be paying a bit of money than defaulting and breaking a 10-yr lease and paying no money.

'''x:''' On the half-rent idea, I have a more approachable angle: If the worst-case scenario is months and months and months, they might be up for splitting it in half in terms of storing stuff on the ground floor. Has also come up in terms of having a staged approach. Maybe if we occupy or just renovate half the space, that's one approach.

But I want to remain optimistic right now that we'll move faster than the pandemic, but if months down the road we're still looking at being out of business, that's a conversation that needs to happen.

'''pyconaut:''' If we're only occupying the ground floor, the upper floor still can't be rented out because of our lease being for both floor.

'''x:''' That's negotiable. Access control can be done that way. And we could have a lease where whoevere is upstairs needs to move out after the shelter in place ends.

'''Lady Red:''' I feel like we're going pretty deep into this rabbit hole.

'''dan:''' To keep it simple, esp. keeping in mind that for those of us coming in once a week to bike-shed this, there's people like Tyler and folks on the landlord's side, keep in mind: Pick your battles very carefully. Not to weigh in too specifically on this split-the-rent-in-a-worst-case-scenario thing, but keep it simple. In the worst-case scenario, this affects us for a year, which is $50k. But our 10-yr, million-dollar-plus relationship is the big picture for what's it really worth. Are there more important things?

'''nthmost:''' $50k is roughly 30%? of what we have in the bank right now, so it's not nothing. And the thing we should focus on is not the details of moving, but how do we maintain our relationship that makes sense to continue this lease comfortably.

The reason we're still talking and going down various rat-holes is that the pandemic makes it difficult to nail down when things need to happen. The longer we drag out action, the more we lose people in the shuffle. We're going to de-map NB from people's psychedelic idea of what's important in the world.

When I say it might be reasonable to look at asking for something, a provision for some short-term forbearance on what we're paying, it's about being certain of a good position going forward.

Tyler, has there been a treasurer report? Are there some facts we can throw in right now?

'''Tyler:''' As of yesterday, our current asset balance of cash + crypto is $294k. We've got $150k and $150k in crypto. We're slowly selling off our crypto assets over a 20-wk period.

'''nthmost:''' What has happened in the past month in donations?

'''Tyler:''' Down $2k. We collect about $1.5-2k/month in cash donations.

'''nthmost:''' That's the cost of us not being open. It's not nothing.

'''Tyler:''' Plus we're not getting anything event-related.

'''pyconaut:''' I want to let people know that one opportunity to talk about NB has come up, which is Virtually Maker Faire.

Maker Faire is an event we participate in every year around this time. This year, they decided to have it virtually, on the 23rd. They emailed me earlier this week to ask if we could present, especially if we have any projects related to COVID that we've been working on, which I can think of our printing stuff, and how we're as a hackerspace running while in this SIP.

If people can please check the Slack or Discuss, if you have any projects you've been working on or just want to visit Virtually Maker Faire, please let me know. I'll repost it on Slack because yeah, we should get the word out about NB's situation and remind people that there's things that can be done online, like Robert's been doing CHM online, we've been doing these meetings online, already one 5mof online and another next week. So there are actions that can be taken.

And we can attach our Patreon page or our Donate to these presentations we're doing. There's nothing wrong with calling out for donations if you're hosting an event on behalf of NB.

Sorry, I know it was kind of not-so-topical.

'''nthmost:''' No, it's topical. People need to keep NB in mind.

'''pyconaut:''' So, I'll re-post in #general all the information on what's happening with this. I'm submitting NB's application on Friday.

'''Tyler:''' 1. I have to go, because this meeting's been going on way too long.

2. My opinion on SIP is that the City is going to open back up for “business as usual”, or at least a phased opening where technically SIP will be ended but there'll be more strict requirements on businesses for hand sanitizer and spacing. That's the scenario we should be planning for rather than “NB can't open for 12 months”.

If anyone's been going by Dolores Park, you'd never know there was SIP. As soon as regulations relax, people are going to start operating businesses as normal.

So let's not focus so much on “we might not pay rent for a year” so much as “let's operate NB in a safe manner”.

'''pyconaut:''' I think that's a very good perspective, because if people are forgetting about the space, we could seek essential infrastructure status and let people use the space in a limited fashion.

I think people are going mad staying at home. I'd like to go to NB every day even if only for three hours, even if we have to have an occupancy limit or time-in-the-space limit.

If regulations relax, let's find a nice little patch of sunlight where NB can operate in a patch of sunlight in a bureaucratic storm.

'''Tyler:''' Even video stores are going to be allowed to reopen, for to-go operations. So it won't be being an essential business, just following regulations on how to operate.

'''x:''' As hackers, we have an obligation to imagine the brave new future. What if we had takeaway 3D-printing on demand? We're not gonna go into a new space in a couple months and re-create our Hackitorium. It's just going to be a different, evolving process and we need to think about how that's going to impact us long-term.

'''Lady Red:''' I was hoping to get a temperature check around: Do we think we'll Consense in this meeting? Will anyone block? If so, what do we need to do to resolve it?

'''bfb:''' I'm not feeling comfort in Consensus at this moment as due diligence is ongoing, so my request was to give it another week for David and Alice to continue that.

'''Lady Red:''' How do you feel with that, Tyler?

'''Tyler:''' I'm comfortable with that decision. We'll wait for his report to come back just to show that we have done full due diligence.

'''pyconaut:''' So it sounds like all the Members present are fine with tabling the idea of Consensing on signing the lease, to move it to next week.

'''Tyler:''' From David's discussion earlier in the meeting, he did say there are no blocking issues on the lease.

'''Jade:''' He also said he didn't get far enough reading through the lease to see our current addenda.

'''Tyler:''' Right.

'''Lady Red:''' If we hear back from David by the end of this week, should we hold a quick-turnaround meeting? I kind of want to just sign it already, just get it done.

'''x:''' I'm holding a daily inspection meeting at 4:44 M–F as to have progress on this every day. Comments are welcome, participation is optional. Intent is to make progress every day to both do due diligence and remove any issues.

#inspection

We have a green light on the building. It's solid, we can move forward. There are questions on the zoning and the use and how we fit into that space. Those are open for as long as you want to open it.

Now, the focus has shifted a bit in terms of explicitly how we use the space and how that does or does not conform to what the City wants.

'''Tyler:''' I just want to add one more clarifying point because I keep hearing people get it wrong constantly.

NB has not had an issue with the Planning Dept. That's not why we're moving. Our issue is with the Building Dept. WRT the building not being fully sprinklered. That's why we're moving.

As far as the Planning Dept. is concerned, I think we're still a garment factory. 272 Capp is going to give us more freedom in terms of our zoning options.

Our biggest option with the Planning Dept. is when we applied to be a community facility, which is not a PDR and required removing factory space.

With that, I'm going to sign off because I've been on for three hours.

'''Lady Red:''' Me too.

[The Hacker Nationale plays]

'''pyconaut:''' Everyone come to 5mof and apply for Virtually Maker Faire. I sent the stuff to Slack and Discuss.

Also, join Robert for CHM.

'''x:''' Carl, when's your next Hayward gathering?

'''CarlG:''' Every Wednesday. So tomorrow.

'''x:''' Neurohacking/Hayward Techie crossover?

'''pyconaut:''' That reminds me. Come join neurotech hacknights on Thursday night. That's been pretty fun.

At some point we'll have all our NB classes at the exact same time they usually happen.

'''boredzo:''' Wanna bring back sewing classes.

'''pyconaut:''' That reminds me, we need to figure out where the new #sewingstation will be.

I need to work with Alex on getting a 3D model of the new space so we can start to lay stuff out.

'''Jade:''' About neurohacking: How about we do something tomorrow, after inspection meeting?

'''x:''' 5 or 6?

'''Jade:''' Something like that.

'''x:''' There's also Mountain View reverse-engineering at 7 tomorrow. But I could do something between 5 and 7.

'''Dan:''' So some kind of video-chatting around… 5? Is that too early?

'''Jade:''' No, that's not too early. There's the #inspection meeting anyway.

'''pyconaut:''' I might join you guys as well. I'm one of the two who records the neurohacking events. I've done the past five or six weeks'.

It's pretty cool. I get to see what you guys have been working on, even though I can't visit NB on Wednesday.

'''Jade:''' We'll have to come up with something impressive.

'''Dan:''' Sometimes there's a new paper, sometimes there's a new project. It's pretty random.

HACK THE PLANET

STACK:
* Robert N. Agrees with due_diligence<-David/Alice{Zoning} so we don't have to move after we move

== Discussion ==
none

=== Discussion Item 1 ===

=== Discussion Item 2 ===


= End of Meeting =

[[Category:Meeting Notes]]