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Meeting Notes 2020 05 19
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=== [[ Current Consensus Items | Proposals from last week ]] === ''(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the [[Consensus Items History]] page.)'' continuation of last week emergency concensus item on Capp St. space location '''Tyler:''' Updates on lease, no changes, waiting on updates from David, and clarification from landlord as to status of 5 year sprinkler certificiate '''Tyler:''' Still looking in to details around zoning and occumpancy and specifics around uses. Once we get the sprinkler update, we've hit all the check boxes to move this forward. Volunteer note takers, plz continue here... #inspection efforts: Detailed Discuss thread available to those with Discuss accounts Daily 4:44 meeting '''bfb:''' Consensus item to sign lease for 272 Capp is on the wiki, it could be consensed at tnext Tuesday meeting or at an emergency Consensus meeting '''x:''' We can consense it next Tuesday or provide 24-hour notice to hold a special Consensus meeting. Are there any Members who have a blocking concern to express? '''Kinnard:''' context changer: Efforts to start up PPE work in the space. '''x:''' Not seeing the relevance of that to discussion of the lease on a new space. '''Zach:''' Would like to hear more general updates '''Zach:''' Would also like to have a discussion on: How can Noisebridge continue to operate remotely and do classes remotely? '''Kinnard:''' This may be a lot of people's first meeting, so some folks might be a little bit lost. '''x:''' Thanks; we'll circle back to that. The virtual aspect is new to all of us; pyconaut has generally been hosting a 7pm pre-meeting. '''x:''' Last call for any expressions of blocks. We're not consensing it today, but would like to open the floor. Then we'll do some introductory aspects and then continue discussion. '''Kinnard:''' I think now is really not the time to move. NB should re-orient itself toward remaining in its home it's had the majority of its life. Even if moving is the right decision, the amount of discontinuity and tumult in the community, and the biggest crisis in living memory, the community needs to move for continuity. Moving would be the exact opposite of that. We should be able to have a regular meeting back in the space. Once the community has been able to re-coalesce, you can actually have a conversation around this that comes from communal integrity. Rushing through this in the middle of the biggest crisis in living memory while we just had a board member resign and there's a new meeting format and things are broken in some ways, I don't think is a wise thing for the community to do. '''Tyler:''' This is not a rushed process. The first meeting regarding this new location was several weeks before shelter-in-place started. We were reviewing leases on the basis that we can't stay in the current location due to ongoing difficulties with our landlord. This isn't something we cooked up in the last couple meetings; there were meetings in the space for a solid month before SIP, and continued meetings online through SIP as we've continued to pursue lease improvements. '''bfb:''' Danny said a week or two ago something that outweighs continuity, which is certainty. We have uncertainty in the current location with the landlord; signing the lease at the new location will bring greater certainty to NB to grow in and mature as a community rather than continue to exist in this limbo. I don't feel comfortable or safe staying in 2169 in the short or long term. I think the current pandemic has given us space and time to pursue a new space in an odd way, since we can't be evicted which previously seemed imminent. '''Aaron:''' Agree with Kinnard that maybe we should have an in-person meeting if we really delay the Consensus and maybe get a more official vote, but I have a couple questions. 1. Maybe I'm just confused, but I just don't see how it could be that much of an obstacle to the community as a whole, since it's the next street over? Maybe it's because it's very dim in that area, or is it just because of the building itself or zoning, etc.? Maybe if we were moving to the other side of the City or another city, that would've been more impactful and detrimental to the community, but the next block over is a much easier transition, and it would help us. 2. Overall question: Has anyone criticized the location? I know Capp St. is really dim, not many street lights. If that's not a concern, not that big of a deal. '''x:''' On capital-M Membership involvement, normally we'd talk more about that, but will specifically mention that how it relates to this is that Members will reach Consensus, which means no Member in good standing formally blocks the Consensus item. Anyone involved in the community in any way has an opportunity to express their concerns, and Members can support the collective will of the community. This is one of many interpretations. There's a common thread of Excellence balancing do-ocracy with respecting people's wishes. The short history of the ability for Members to block is that it is a tool to be exercised only if the perceived change would mean that that Member no longer wishes to contribute and stay part of NB with that change. '''Kinnard:''' I don't think entering into another lease solves the problem for NB. Expressed this to a NBer recently and he said “yeah, all landlords are assholes”. Thus far lanlord and building management have worked with us in good faith and set positive footing for a long term relationship, before, during and after pandemic. A landlord can start the relationship very well, and it can start out in a good way, but you can end up in the end with a similar situation to our current situation. I think what NB really needs to do to take that step to become a more mature community is shift that orientation and buy 2169. If you think about what NB is and why it needs to pay its rent, and why we got $150k in Bitcoin, it's a landmark. Given the circumstances, with the current landlord and the board member who primarily handled relations with the landlord resigning, it's a good time to take a pause and hold off something that adds more entropy like a move. Let the community re-coalesce. On top of that, all factors are improving for NB. I spoke to a leasing agent regarding the CryptoCastle and his advice was delay, delay, delay because the market is turning to favor buyers. '''Zach:''' I wanna first thank Kinnard for the courage to speak up on a big topic like this and speak some very good points and share what he's feeling. That perspective has been missing. I feel like I was evicted from NB a year ago [when the elevator went down], so I've missed a lot. I think there's really good points from all sides of this conversation. The pandemic obviously has changed the housing market in really interesting ways. In so-called normal times, finding a venue that's wheelchair-accessible is hard, especially at that proximity and a reasonable price, so that's a huge incentive to go for it. I think Kinnard makes a great point about how great it'd be to buy the space. AFAIK the landlord does not want to sell, and a lot of landlords have not wanted to sell in SF because the housing market was booming, and now it is not. That's something to investigate. Finding out the virtual location of this meeting was not super easy, it was not well advertised, was not posted with the date, and if we want Consensus with something like this, like signing a lease, we need to advertise these meetings much better. It needs to be '''everywhere''' that these meetings are happening, this is why they're happening, this is where they're happening. Lastly, as a wheelchair user, I've been really removed from this process, and I'm sure there are other disabled people who have been removed from this process. I'm disappointed that we weren't meeting virtually until there was a pandemic, and I hope we keep it up. One last point: One thing I've been really concerned with all groups is that most all non-profits and activist-oriented groups have been practicing really lackluster safety precautions. For someone who's immunocompromised, that's extremely concerning. I would hope that if a move happens, social distancing and safety precautions would be ''much'' more closely followed. I'm concerned about the stories I'm hearing about the space being open and how lax people are being about this. I just posted a guide about the scientific evidence that shows how this virus is spread, and this virus is killing able-bodied, healthy people under the age of 20. Don't think that just because you're not elderly or disabled you're not going to die or get fucked up with lung damage. We need to take precautions and set an example as a hacker community that we know how to support people with PPE and be safe. '''x:''' Appreciate your feedback. Not a comment to Zach, who hasn't been able to be involved until now, but generally please be mindful of time. '''Tyler:''' DR to Kinnard. We don't have the money to buy a building. We're not close. The owner of 2169 has said they're not interested in selling. So, not an option until we come up with a million dollars and convince the landlord to sell before we run out of time to sign the lease. If the pandemic hadn't hit, we would've had the walls literally taken out of Noisebridge. Staying at 2169 is not an option, even legally. And based on the current state of the building not meeting fire code, it's illegal for us to operate any equipment or machinery beyond your laptop. It's not a usable space for people to build things or use tools. To Zach, on meetings not being widely distributed: This is the third weekly meeting on this subject, and they've gone out to the email list, Discuss, and @everyones on Slack. So notifications have gone out, not so much for this meeting, but this has been an ongoing Consensus process for several weeks. '''x:''' Anyone who didn't participate in the Consensus item in April, please review the Consensus Items History. We authorized a special Consensus process via a Consensus Item. '''Aaron:''' Buying would mean a loan of $55/sqft, which is a $275k loan. Doesn't include capital fees, other fees like that. '''x:''' We'd likely have to buy the whole building, not just the third floor, and have to convince the landlord to go for that. '''bfb:''' I'll try to send out a link to this meeting more broadly. Acknowledging that we are participating in a big decision. A lot of folks are plugged into the email list but not Slack. To Kinnard and Aaron: It just seems like a pipe dream to purchase the space, whereas the new space is a stepping-stone to the financial security to purchase a space in the future. One thing we learned from applying for grants, the longer the lease, the greater the pool of money available to us, because it signals stability to the grant issuer. Our current situation is tenuous at best. Having a steady foundation with a ten-year lease, with a space that's just around the corner, seems more optimal for a sustainable future. And, it is more accessible. No elevator needed to enter. It'd be excellent if we can figure out access to the second story. Moving will be a pain in the ass, and it is more expensive, but that's about it. '''Eli:''' I love Zach's comments, and think they're righteous. This is my first NB General Meeting, and it was quite challenging getting in. I had to dig and there was conflicting information on which meeting this was going to be in, up until the meeting started. If a big decision is to be made, it would be wise to more formally announce the meeting. '''Kinnard:''' Agree with Zach, hoping that the virtual stuff continues. Also his point about this not being publicized well enough. So the process has broken down over the past several weeks, and it's obvious why: There is a global crisis going on. In that environment, I don't think that you'll be able to get, the corollary to what Zach was saying, the silent do-ocrats who are working in the space, such as Eli who's been working on PPE for UCSF, serving a critical need during this crisis, and there's a real distance between what happens in the NB meeting and what happens in the space. Jay, Ahmad who's been helping Eli. When we are finally able to have an in-person meeting again, you'll get a fuller spectrum of the community. What I've observed over the past several weeks is that it's very wacky and it's reminiscent of the door situation when quarantine first started. To Zach's other two points: I think we haven't, with Ruth resigning from the board and being the primary contact with the 2169 landlord and say you're about to lose your decade-long cash cow in the worst real estate market. We're about to sign a new lease. It's in your interest to come to the table and sign a new lease. I've been working on a crypto-crowdraise … '''x:''' Can we make that a separate discussion item, if it's about buying the space? '''Kinnard:''' It's a DR to Zach, about buying the space. When we needed money for the sprinklers, we got a $150k-in-Bitcoin donation; imagine what a real campaign could do. '''Zach:''' I really like the discussion going on here. This is obviously one of the most heated topics you could have, and we're not yelling at each other yet, and that's kind of amazing. I've been so removed from this discussion that I can only put so much stock in what I'm gonna say here, but: I think Kevin really made some great points. I didn't know Ruth left the board. That's big news; that really sucks; Ruth was awesome. If someone could tell me off-list, I'm interested in what happened. I don't use Slack. Sudoroom managed to get a shit ton of money to buy their building for Omni Commons in Oakland, but their landlord was willing to negotiate. I know a lot of people have worked for a long time to find a suitable new space. I was in a meeting a year ago where a bunch of people proposed a bunch of really awful, inaccessible spaces. The fact that people have found an accessible space around the corner that's even remotely affordable? That's a huge deal and I want to acknowledge the hard work that went into that. I can appreciate both sides of this discussion, but have to go with what Kevin was saying. What Kinnard is saying is an ideal and I agree with it, but the reality is unfortunately that we kinda gotta get out of where we are. The fire code issues are jacked; the elevator is jacked; it's our responsibility under the lease to fix the elevator which is jacked. Moving is a pain? The new space being around the corner is a lot better than a few miles. https://discuss.noisebridge.info Getting the word out is really vital and especially on the Discuss forum. It would be great if we had meetings posted: Meeting this date happening. '''x:''' Also want to extend appreciation for helping me keep this meeting productive. It's 9pm; this conversation could go well past 10. pyconaut will be next. I want to make room for some other discussion items and then circle back to this. On Ruth: All of us are expressing disappointment and frustrations in our own way. More conversations to be had there. Good idea for folks to gather in a separate meeting to talk about responsibilities that need to be picked up. '''pyconaut:''' Great to see you, Zach. I remember you mentioning you don't use Slack at all. If you somehow found one of the only weeks when we have not announced the meeting on Discuss, a lot of people have been putting effort into improving Slack. People like you, Liz, Alex, all didn't have their voices shown all that much because we didn't have the elevator, and we didn't have digital meetings. Having you back is very important for this discussion. There's a lot that's changed that you'd know about if you used Slack: Ruth; the elevator is no longer in our lease; we have estimates of how much it'd cost to fix the elevator; they are not good estimates. We have continued looking for buildings in SF. I thank you for getting mad at that meeting about inaccessibility. Because we had been inaccessible for so long, the perspective of NBers was that we didn't have any disabled people, only because our elevator didn't work and our stairs are horrendous. We need the perspective of you, Liz, Alex, other community members who have been put on the wayside not only by the current pandemic but also by our current space being inaccessible. A lot of people need to remember: We have a commitment to be accessible. There is no path forward in our current space to being accessible. Even if we buy the building, we still have to put a bunch of money into the elevator, which would not be feasible until well after we bought the building. There's so much more about this than just we're in a space right now we should try to buy it; it's about what is the best real space for NB? 2169 is not the best space NB could have. Neither is 272 Capp, but 272 Capp is a step forward in accessibility; a small step backward in cost; a major step forward in zoning and legality of doing ''anything''; and if fire checks out, a safer space for the whole community. But also, there definitely are problems with our communication methods. That's why we made sure that the link to this meeting does not change. Same thing with the meeting notes. We try really hard to make sure that people can easily bookmark these so they can easily find them. I see people asking where the link is? The simple answer is: You should bookmark it. Not to you specifically, just generally. We as a community should bookmark it for everyone. In Slack, that means pinning it in #general. These meetings, and the meeting notes, are often posted on Slack and (unfortunately less often) on Discuss, in #general. If we pin this info to the correct location, there's less chance of people not finding it. '''x:''' Let's continue that in the operating-remotely discussion. '''bfb:''' Awesome that the space is being used for producing PPE. I don't see that as a conflict with moving. We should be able to continue limited operations during the transition. '''Zach:''' I don't want to go into the discussion of Slack. We've beaten this horse so dead. If NB wants to host necessary, important, vital community information on Slack and nowhere else, that should be made clear on Noisebridge dot net. That's it. If it's essential, it should be advertised that way. I would be curious to know when Ruth left. Still kind of a shock to me; what date was it? '''Tyler:''' Like four days ago. I sent you a DM on Discuss with more info. '''Zach:''' Good to know that it's recent and I haven't been out of the loop too long. I really like Discuss. I am concerned about deletion of posts. I couldn't find Ruth's post. '''Tyler:''' The post was on Slack. '''Zach:''' It was never posted on Discuss? Oh. There was something else that was deleted; what's the process on that, who has those powers? Separate discussion item. '''x:''' The norms and process on Discuss are still being figured out. For canonical, official process, the wiki rules; it has better history. For official proceedings and documentation, we should all use the wiki. But we all need to work on those processes. ---HOLD STACK--- Will resume discussion, after check-in General Noisebridge questions Discussion item 1, PPE at Noisebridge Follow up meeting, additional volunteers and board More lease/moving discussion, etc ---RESUME STACK--- Stack moved to "Discussion" section...
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