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== Discussion == === Discussion Item 1 === Basic space safety (with limited use) *Buddy System (+Virtual) *PPE **Mask, modified Respirators (moderate stock) **Gloves (well stocked) Pyconaut bringin more **Sanitizer (NEED MORE) Pyconaut bringin more **Wipes (MORE) Pyconaut bringin more *Distancing (Demonstration distancing marks needed) *No indoor eating/drinking (Eat before/after visiting, use driveway/car) Pyconaut - I will do better === Discussion Item 2 === Telepresence cameras *Safety & Privacy *Recording, re-broadcasting, scraping *Access Pyconaut - it was brought to my attention over the last couple weeks people have heard we have a jitsi server for NB always running with cameras connected. And people are concerned why are cameras connected and is there a danger of cameras recording / monitoring people. Where are the cameras? How easy are they to turn off? Some context: we have been trying to setup telepresence in the space so people can take classes remotely - so we need telepresence setups in a couple classwrooms for when needed. We've set these up as testing instances. Monitor computer keyboard mouse and webcam are adequately labeled - easy to locate, none hidden - able to be turned off or on by any person in the space without much effort. Unclear if they can be turned on or off remotely. But the current use of them has mainly been during buildout to be a way of communicating between people seperated in different rooms - or to contact remote [advisors] for information about the space. For example when working on 3d printers or electronics room they can contact someone over jitsi to discuss what they need to do. This is important to communicate Question: Does the space include visible documentation on the cameras? Is there a sign saying "Recording in Progress" or similar? Pyconaut - yes but could be better. We could have bigger lighted signs indicating not only if jitsi is running on a computer, but also if camera or microphone is on. (Some systems run headless) . Something like the ngalac has - a giant on-air button Relay - are they constantly on? You do see below..., could be, will be automated, dry erase and door glass for now. Is it visibly clear which part of a room is being recorded via video? Example: step beyond this line and you are now live on the feed with chalk or crayon marks on the floor Is it currently possible to opt out of being recorded in the space while in the space? No, enter and you are recorded. Just clarifying. ;) Is the external camera still that ring camera+light combo that was previously installed during move-in? Theres a GIANT RED STOP LIGHT that says RECORDING, for potential of actual recording, and simpler signage for in house only could be added. they are generally left on, staring at walls or cams (when the space is empty) and can be turned off physically and remotely they've been on as much as possible to stress the system, not necessarily expected to be default mode long term Where are the cameras located? (haven't been to capp to see; just write in below please). Look at who's in this jitsi meetings, and the cameras that introduced themselves earlier. It changes constantlys depending on what if anything is happening, and who's comfortable with what level of activity. J - are they always connected to the internet? Pyconaut: Currently people who have been going to the space have been leaving them running. Possibly to help monitor gate etc. Any person in the space is able to turn off all of the telepresce setup Dan- the setups are very obvious, and are connected to eachother (crazy echo). We know this can be very dagerous, but we are trying to be transparent, and trying to develop this so that it is safe, and will fix any issues. James- Is it possible to opt out Dan- absolutly James- is there any way to opt out while entering the space THERE IS NO RECORDING IN THE SPACE BY DEFAULT. You have to go in to a closed room and step in front a live camera. Does not cover what others who have access to the space physical or virtual want to do as well. Pyconaut- we do have a gate camera that is always running, and has not been put offline as we do not have a gate system up yet. J- it is importaint to have a outdoor looking camera. But I dont think we should have any remotly accessable cameras that are online all the time, and could theoretiaccly be recorded by third parties. You walk by several ring cameras on the way to capp st by the way if you aren't really really careful. But, do we still also have the ring camera outside? Or a different camera? we havern't identfied who's property is, it's pointed at the sky with tape over it and isn't actively connected. (thanks) The driveway is also streaming, and has currently joined the jitsi (upstairs) Relay- In the moment people could record very easily, includen what we are doing right now. this is public right now, as it is a meeting. But also while noisebridge is closed it seems like a good time to test these things, and that we will change them when we open. J- how transparent is enough, and How do you create instruction and classes without recording with a camera, for virtual out of space experience? Mark is awesome right not making clothes on their home camera. Pyconaut- I think there's been a lot of good questions. What? Oh. Yeah. Okay. There's a few comments ... Another thing there are cameras on quite a few buildings near noisebridge so we could make a map where the cameras are in the neighborhood for people coming to visit. Could we put a button near the front door for people to turn off cameras when they come in rasperry pi telepresense with a button that can sever everything when pressed. put them in physical space. that way they can hit the button and turn off the jitsi instances other than i think the front gate secure, we should leave the one in the front open i dont' think it is being recorded. it is important to be able to make sure that nobody is trying to break in (it already happened) Dan: im getting tired. Big picture words. Dan- I completly agree with J and Relay, I am fed up with cameras especially what happened at thhe old space. We are currently doing this testing because noisebridge is closed, and is the only time we can test it. what matters is who is actually coming to the space's opinion. Pyconaut: i think that we do have a group of people worried about not being able to enter the space securely. we should be able to accomodate those that want to come in not being recorded and let them in without being recorded. the person that lets them in can turn off the cameras. if people want to let us know when they are coming and they want no recording we'll turn them off. Anyone present have an issue coming to the space with everything they've just heard? I have been at the space for 100's of hours testing camera settings, and haven't had any issues that could not be reasonably accomidated. It's been discussed in several meetings which has been re-discussed in other forums. This is also new and being documented as developed. Question James- Is documentation of our Capp location cameras publicly posted on the wiki or forum or mailing list? we should make a wiki page for the telepresense that has not been updated with this new stuff. we don't have the locations up to date. none of them have a password. all are ascessable from the inside. One of the machine's password is ***************. X probaly knows the status and software of these computers. How easy is it to do stuff? we want to make sure no keyloggers are on the system and sniffers. SOme unexcellent people did that in the past. we should make our system more secure. Some poeple did that to the VR earlier and made things unexcellent. Then you all seriously need to stop using Windows on everything Wait are their hackers at hackerspaces!? iz late, get'n later, ya'll want a show or what? Dan: the monitoring of surveilence might be something to be concerned. James:: there is no docuemtnation for something I invented tomorrow?, and it's a wiki documenta way. \ Dan: it is a work in progress. Thank you for your point though. it is not permenant. If it was perminant it would absoluly need documentation. (argument insues briefly) It is an experiment that is controversial. J- it should probably be documented already even as a temperary setup. Dan: X did lots of documentation for the cameras. look at the wiki if you want to. Please try if you want to. it definately crossed some lines. thank you. Thank you for your patience https://www.noisebridge.net/index.php?search=jitsi+hackitorium&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go pyconaut: James wanted a direct answer that's all. It is very important to poeple here. People were going to publish a post that said that noisebridge is 1984'd distopia. J from some people's perspective it is good to have security for those that want it now, but I don't agree with haveing a camera in the space. I understand it is for now, but it is a fine line and we are right on the line right now. Many fought against it. Poeple have been thrown out for putting cameras in the space. It seems to be a form of security, but i don't think it is good. It might be turned against us. ?? I love having tape to put on cameras where I go. thanks for coming out and huge shout out to mark working in the middle of a meeting. I want to underscore this is for getting there. A year ago we had meetings in person without masks. This testing of the servers and telepresence infrastructure is only doable to during the time We can remotly disable all of these, we are trying to test stuff while it dosent invade anyones privacy. I have be a big security activist, and am trying to figure this out to so that it meets everyones security concerns. J- it is a fine line, and I am concerened X- we recently used this setup to record a guide to use a new noisebridge tool that was donated. Dan- Hearing the concerns by people like j who is concerned and wants to help set up the space. We need to make the current space meet their concerns and others and take them down. J- I am more concerned about the larger community, and what this means for the people who are concerned. X- The notes are a shorthand version of the exact things talked about during this meeting, X- This server for the meeting has ETE encription and is running on a noisebrige computer in the space, and anyone who wants to know how it is working they can talk to X. X- I plan to remotly hard shut down all the computers with cameras right after the meeting and they can only be turned on in the space. Pyconaut- I think the gate camera should be left on for security? X- We should also move off of windows and secure the drives with encription, for when we do record classes Dan- I want to hear the concerns of others who would tell people to stop supporting noisebridge. Pyconaut- I am sorry to any readers, as there were very useful things said that me and others could not write up in easily. X- Noisebridge is still a do-ocracy and can be changed by the community. J- I want to help out, what stuff need work. X- we have not forgotten about security and privacy. X- a new thing I am testing a is giant stop light in the rooms that have a camera that is running, and a two way mirror blocking the camera from viewing anything other then itself. X- how can we make it easier for systems that teachers can just come in and use the systems. Or even remote into the systems to use for a class, or for someone remotly to control a computer in the space to help someone use that computer (home teacher, in person student) X- We want to be able to meet everyones needs and everyones concerns, but this requires testing. J- I want people to be able to easily come into the space, and be able to quickly start using the gear in the space. J having a camera in the space changes the dynamic, I do not agree with the principles that we should have cameras in the space. X- We have always had events in the space and many have been streamed, and people are made aware. J- can we have a feed right at the enterance, can we make it even more transparent about what cameras are on. Dan- How can we keep people from being unaware about the cameras. J- People have also come to me with concerns about the cameras. J- this will not be end of the conversation X- This has been an experamental setup,,, and is constantly changing based on feedback. Dan- This is where it starts, this is not the end all be all, we need to have this conversation continue. Dan- We are still a community, and are havingissues seting up the new physical space, and the cameras have helped trememdously. Question Is the Jitsi machine accessible from .info? jitsi.noisebridge.io (aka: Vbox on cia.noise) NO, it's not on Unicorn, it's in the physical space and physically accessable Pyconaut- These notes do not answer all the quesions perfectly, and some things might be confusing. If you still have concerns please let someone you trust know, if you want you can message me on slack, discord, or discuss. Didn't ask about Jitsi for discussion item; just asking.
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