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== [[ Current Consensus Items | Proposals for next week ]] == ''(Add any new items for consensus to the [[Current Consensus Items]] page.)'' https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items TWO different proposals on how we could handle vax status OPTION 1: Inquiring about vaccination status It is excellent to broach the subject of vaccination, either by pointing at the sign, or asking the person if they are vaccinated. If people are unvaccinated they must not be let inside without very good reason. * lizzard - i'm in favor of this broccoli blocks this OPTION 2: Require showing vaccination cards Explicitly require showing vaccination cards prior to entry to Noisebridge (until further notice). Blocked as currently written This came about due to the questions that came up when asking non vaccinated people to leave. Having big C concensus will make it easier for people to fell safe asking people to leave, and for how it should be handled. There are two options (vaccine cards or ask about status) Multiple people dislike the idea of forced deanominazation of people by looking at card and id, but are fine with asking people about Both options have current exsplicit blocks, reasons and alternatives will be explained New option from Fineline You must broach the subject of vaccination, either by pointing at the sign, or asking the person if they are vaccinated. You may _not_ request to see someone's official vaccination record, as we oppose the deanonymization that would induce*. If people are unvaccinated they must not be let inside without very good reason. *This does not apply to events hosted at noisebridge by third parties (eg our monthly hack comedy, hackathons, etc..). If the host of these events wants to require official proof of vaccination, we can accommodate this. Mark- I am not a member, but if I was I would block this. I think we need to enforse masks as lying is very easy, and masks Soon we might be required to follow the methods of bars requiring vacine cards relay: if we're going to do this, we're going to have to have explicit 'doorway' procedures. nadine: sounds like a nightmare. no one wants to be put in that situation. no one wants deanonymity also. how do we straddle the line. how about show your card and cover your name or also not phone number evil dan: enjoy the moments we have together until our ultimate doom from ebola-covid dave: direct response to steve. don't understand why it needs to be combined. both can go in as separate items. steve: talked to tj, agreed that we were going to block requiring vax cards. wanted to go for lesser option. option 1 not good by itself because it didnt explicitly forbid chacking the vac records. kept option 1 intact, but prevents from checking vax records. Sophia- Generally people of noisebridge would not lie, and I would be comfortable asking them to take exstended leave if they lie. steve: recapping what happened. sophia proposes i retract my block if we small c concens to not check vac cards on top of option 1. Steve- I retrat my block under those conditions. Currenmt term- pyconaut: i have comments but do not block option 1. can add to small-c consensus. if someone new to the space. if someone asks to see the card people can say no they don't want to show it. I think this will help with possible gaps. dan: consensus is the map not the territory - the reality of dealing with these fucking people. It is good to have a good map. You want to keep it simple and it is ok wait a week and figure it out next week. With regard to one counterpoint to our culture is to have "YOU MUST" is concerning. someone suggested changing it to "it would be excellent to" but i dont agree. glad you're not putting in too many details about asking whether you can or cannot ask to see someone's id. generally a no, but sometimes you gotta call BS. this is rare. no policy is better than bad policy. tj: on must vs excellent. saying "it's excellent" but not requiring is just status quo. so the consensus item would be meaningless. read bocolli's issues with proposal 1 brocolli doesnt consense. but why? steve tells us. he doesn't like broccoli doesn't like "must", likes "it is excellent". And to second is not appropriate (fine we already know this). Also add it is unexcellent to ask for vaccine card. broccoli doesn't think there is a "must" to it. strongly feel that it's not excellent to ask for vaccine card. Either way if they are not alloud if they are unvacccinated. sophia: that sounds like a stronger version of steve's objection steve: agrees. needs to be something in there that you cant ask for proof of official vaccine record. he wants to disallow the "must" clause. dave: i dont think the distinction matters. why: we only have one rule. if something is not excellent you can't do it. therefore: excellent is must. steve: this is genius. legal wrangling is the essence of NB forget his name: this is all about keeping each other safe. as human beings we should be able to ask this. we should take someone at their word. dont want it to keep going around in circles. We are not polititions we are just trying to vcreate an exellent space. We are relay: addendum. cannot use "should". however he said we explicitly can't check for vaccine records. Fineline- There will probably be a time where the city will ask for us to check records Sophia- most of the community thinks that you should be vaccinated to be in noisebridge doba is a writer by trade. if its an issue with "must" being a rule and "its excellent to" isnt enough. then we could say "failure to raise the question of vaccine status is considered unexcellent" Dave- I propose we give up on giving big C consensus tonight, as there still seems to be some people who might block Sophia- I think there will be other people who might be against it if we delay it to long. Dave: nothing is consensed. there is no consensus item that prohibits you from asking about vaccine card. Dan- It is rare that we need big c concensus, but I think it is important when it protects yourself and others, and it will make the line less blury. ive been involved in 4 discussions with people who arent vaccinated. last one was with sophia. i would be happy to be like lol no sorry. if in the next 24h we get better language and put it in the wiki, it could pass next week. Words can be hard. if the vaccination status stuff becomes an issue that's fine. we're good at watching the watchpeople. good faith is good for doing this. dont like codifying excellence. we can take the must out. conensus item: It is excellent to broach the subject of vaccination, either by pointing at the sign, or asking the person if they are vaccinated. If people are unvaccinated they must not be let inside without very good reason. It is unexcellent to ask for vaccine cards unless there is a strong reason. Sophia- Asking about current members feelings. No present members block curren draft of the writing dave: i regret to inflict more discussion upon everyone. another consensus item thats exactly the same but with a 90 day expiration limit. Spohia- this new item also passes current members, and goes to next meeting Stack
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