Editing Meeting Notes 2022 04 26 (section)

== 3: Cooking / sleeping at Noisebridge? ==

Naomi: What's going on with this?
Mark: There have been a number of cases of people sleeping at the space.
Elan: There was a couple using the space as a hostel.
Mark: If the couple shows up we can talk to them.

TJ: A couple weeks ago someone commented that the kitchen was gross. Someone helped them clean up and it was great for about a week. I don't want it to be that sort of space. It's off-putting to a bunch of people coming into the space. 

Elan: On that note sort of, some members have said to me things like they like the space but they have to act like people's mom and clean up after them.

Naomi: well that's not Excellent.

Elan: The space shouldn't be a 'tragedy of the commons' situation.

Mark: Spoke to victor about this about "should we employ someone to keep things up"? 

Naomi: This discussion has been had before. The usual arguments are: if you employ somebody, it creates a sort of "servant class". No bueno. Make sure if NB hires someone they DO NOT be involved with NB whatsoever.

TJ: Our empathetic response would not be as high for this person.

Naomi: Also could such a person even make sense of this space?

David : Could have two people do the cleaning.

Dane: What if it was a Member responsibility? That might put undue stress on members or something?

TJ: In most collectives there's a rotation of duties.

Naomi: Traditionally we've solved these systems by thinking about the systems that are operating at Noisebridge and treat the undesired results as entropy. Instead of blaming people, design systems that reduce this entropy.  e.g. think about the distance of the trash cans from the table.

Ryan: We need professional help (to move some of the larger items)

Elan: I'll save for next NB item (#6), were there more thoughts on cooking/sleeping? From what I've been told, there are issues with if Noisebridge is a place people can stay. Not residential, we can't legally be a hostel.

Mark: We can't be your house. You can't chill and do nothing (Just to clarify, I mean that this is un-excellent generally speaking, and should try to be worked on with people)

Chris: Don't have problem during daytime hours, becomes legal threshold we cannot pass without getting into sticky water. Like "you can sleep here, it's fine." Zoning issues and such during daytime, but day turns night it's illegal

Elan: Not sure if people'd bring charges (people who don't like being neighbors or have a grievance against NB)

Naomi: Oh yes. It was 2014 when someone we banned retaliated and went to the city to file 3 different formal complaints with the city, which led to 2014 reboot. Including people were residing illegally.

Too bad we don't use email list, sort of a historical record. I still don't want to use it though, heh.

TJ: I don't know if we should have an oven/stove in the kitchen because it promotes more using NB as a living space. Over the weekend I stored it away and that potentially should have been a consensus item.

Ryan/Monte: Food hacking is a form of hacking. Maybe there's a compromise, where people in good standing have access or there's some kind of usage log or something?
    
TJ: For example the kombucha project: someone came in fermented it for a few weeks and then it was great - we had kombucha. How do we differ that sort of food-hacking from using it as a living situation. 

Ryan: We shouldnt be so quick to abolish cooking in the space

Ronald: I think the propane grill was great for events. Perhaps a rule that would help with this is require any food must be for sharing. 

Naomi: We currently don't have a proper expectation of behavior. It is lacking right now, but it has existed in the past. Previously the kitchen was to the point where they would film cooking videos but behavior was enforced because there were enough eyeballs. But NB also has dismantled its kitchen before. The culture has changed many times. What is the ROI of having a kitchen because cleaning up after people has the real cost of burning people out. There's also a difference between an imaginative view of what could NB have a kitchen that does not cause other to burnout. In CCC for instance there is a culture/expectation that does not result in others being burdened by it. 

Ronald: Cameras in the space and AI

Naomi: Doesn't solve the problem, trust me.

TJ: Who would be willing to be part of a cleaning rotation?

Mark: I am committing to doing some cleaning on Tuesdays.

HB: I already do this. It's part of being a Do-ocracy. It's not always the fun stuff. 

Dane: There needs to be a balance of do-ocracy and accountability. 

Ryan: I don't think could be completely accountable but would be more willing to take on small tasks that are well defined. 


Elan: At a high level, the people who clean up after themselves will do so and clean after others. WE are at the point where there's mental cost of cleaning after others. Makes coming into space not as fun. We don't need to be cracking down on cleaning up, didn't do X, optimizing as many people as possible doing cool things. Coming up with systems makes people who are constantly fighting entropy. Need more people. Lizzard fixed trash can, so no more trash cans. Taking pictures, saying "this is what Noisebridge should look like". Those are all good things.

Mark: There is #space-cleanup channel in Discord now

HB: Policy of "clean whatever you see" . Do a quick policing of the area. Sometimes pick up a few things.

Mark: Something I do when I greet people (we should greet/welcome people) is explain excellence. It's a nice way to introduce people to the space.

TJ: I think there will always be this problem. Instead of telling yourself to resist temptation we should create systems to prevent it. Rotation might have issues with blame but coming up with weekly to-do items that have to happen no matter what. 

Naomi: Mary Poppins. (Computer that shouted at people to cleanup)
- TJ: people would shutoff mary poppins

Naomi: We should have a cleanup after this meeting. I've been hesitant to do this as I don't know where things should go. 

Ronald: potentially bigger/expensive item: the floor gets really scuffed/messy


AI(TJ): 
    - resurrect mary poppins
    - Create channel for weekly Noisebridge chores