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What are we trying to accomplish?? Write Thoughts below...

I think it’s worthwhile to talk about the deficiencies of the “working group” model as we work to make the Guild model successful.

Lets address each: 
   Working groups did not have consistent methods of accountability. So people outside those groups had to follow byzantine routes to get access to documents, records, emails, etc.
   Working groups were often indistinguishable from cabals. Some groups operated private channels on Slack, sometimes for good reasons (e.g. in serious AHP cases, the protection of the accused from further smearing and protection of the victim from victim-blaming until we could figure out exactly wtf was going on). People became paranoid about these groups as not being transparent or fair, which was also a fair criticism. The Safe Space Working group, for example, became obsessed with “red flags”, a few of which, imho, were just classist and racist dogwhistles.
   Working groups did not have a built-in ethos of knowledge transfer. “Teach and Learn” should have been a principle of those groups, but it seemed not to be. When these groups died off, valuable institutional knowledge died with them.
   Working groups had no support from the culture of Noisebridge in terms of growing the sizes of these groups. Work all fell on the few who started these groups, naturally leading to burnout and the ultimate demise of these groups.

Ryan: Guild page organization, we have loops where things just loop [without further value] -- the guilds main pag Do any of us use the wiki for our guild? I do not -James

Point is to have institutional knowledge. Focus on expertise. Guild vision originally included something like scouting badges (still an aspirational goal not a reality). Music guild difficult to use as an example, b/c what are the reasonable expectations we can put on folks when they won't be rewarded for that effort? If they are putting in a whole lot of effort for noodling on musical instruments they

James - Right now I have a lot of credentials related to the music guild, Noisebridge infrastructure, noisebridge software donations, all of the Unicorn server credentials (treasurer does have these), domain hosting, etc. Email accounts, software keys, otp codes, noisebridge accounts, a beta account for laser cutter software, all of the old laser cutter files (and music files) from our Windows 7 machine, administration of discuss forum

Rack - set of skills related to how things get done, noisebridge way to get things done, formal permissions. significant bottleneck. ben has ultimate control for ansible. If we had a structure where a couple people in the guild system trained others in how to become journeymen. Would create cogent system for guilds.

Ryan: I didn't want tosingle out the music guild. I love the point that rack is very different, music, gaming, etc. We've had gamebridge for years, but the one problem I see sometimes (and thinking of music guild) is the amount of equipment which no one knows anything about. They need to know what equipment we have. Guilds need to help with this in terms of trying to write stuff up -- what do we have & any funky nb issues if you want to use it. I want anyone to be able to come up and teach. How do I do stuff?

Get involved tab, and marcos new website would help alot

Wiki lives at

Acquired real music software licenses and installed across multiple donated computers we carefully installed and locked down. Carefully setup everything with Cain. People would wipe out our music mac mini hard drives and break ability to use the computer to teach and learn on Sundays. Happened 3 or 4 times where we had to completely re-configure the computers in the space after class ended, but thankfully each teacher had a laptop with their own music setup to cover. Music area moved around the space, without discussion, which really fucked everything up. No one who moved the equipment helped restore it (perhaps one person tried), nor did anyone want to take responsibility. Teachers did not want to deal with the fallout of disorganized chaos, so they did not. Instead, they began bringing their laptops. Licenses skipped for pirate licenses due to constant problems. J decided he no longer wanted to teach as he felt disrespected, but felt it wasn't fair to expect noisebridgers should respect the music computers.

Naomi: A lot of stuff you talked about Ryan is about resources and I'm not sure whether that is equivalent to Guilds? Just because we have a collection of related stuff, doesn't mean there is necessarily a guild. We perhaps need more organizaional level guild-like things, like an Events Guild for instance. (plz correct if this is a bad summary) There's a deficiency in how we've been thinking all these things through, not an attack on you specifically Ryan. RYAn (I agree, sorry I was geting to focused on problems and not solutions)

Everyone in NB is a volunteer, we should have no expectations for ppl sticking around for the long term, so we have to reconcile all this with that.

we need ways that people fel good about doing their part (guild coins, qualifications, couldgo on resume)

make sure that guilds coexist (does metaguild even exist), we could implement multiple metaguilds that are all as official as eachother since noisebridge is an anarchy

we need a sucess that can give people a concrete thing as to what a guild looks like and how it functions and how it helps the people in the guild itself

examples from game guild

   we get press passes to game conventions
   we helped influence CCSF ciriculm
   we get press keys

How to we give people the sense that a guild badge is real, can the metaguild help with that Metaguild is a stracture that allows other structures to exist.

Can we help with allowing the guilds to selfsustain

have levels within guilds that allow us to give people status and encourgment for doing great work.

I love the idea of encouraging others to join in any guild at any level. -James

this allows people to help eachother.


   Mark as master of game guild can show James how to run a gamestream or a game class. thus james gains knowledge and become a journeyman
   Can also help gamebridge survive if the master leaves.
   once you learn how to do a thing, you have the badge as well.

   problem of comunicating what structure that a guild should build, 

   levels and badges can help with people who want to learn or show they know things
   Badges show we trust someone.

Badge of knowing where all music equipment is, badge for how to run music recording class, knowing how to stream class. Badges could also be done as a "tag" in terms of the wiki or other software pages.

should we allow people to take on becomening a guildmaster insteaad of anintment

badge vs coin

   badges have a quality 
   they show trust
   coins accumulate
   would there be a way to cash in coins?
   would this allow people to game the system though?

if you are sittng on a ton of credentials who do you give them to. how do you trust the other people.

should each guild have a credential pool where should it be how do we create a backup without giving all credentials to one entity, but also not have to create to many redundant access points.

should metaguild hold a backup credential space for each guild

how do we back up the metaguild?

be in the community even outside of the space

you need a theorey of your guild with certain things to get started.

   a theory must include ranks and (badge?)requirements for said ranks

who does the reporting, how do we create a handle for the guilds to

metaguild is for archiving

   its to bring things forward

the metaguild could help take care of thhe wiki?

what happens in an apoclypse senario, guilds and metaguild disapears (we can just start over in that senario.)

we have in the past lost many things due to crappy reasons, how do we keep this from happening in the future.

metaguild leads continuance practices so that we always can move forward

Make people feel involved

test earning badges

On Unicorn and Cyberpunks Guild-- I added a mac mini to the rack with small c support and ran local services for a full year with zero issues, despite being told it was impossible. In order to host servicess outside the space, I purchase a server using split broadcast and equipment funds for a full 3 years for public good and register the account directly to the treasurer. I refuse to maintain the server myself and don't actual use ssh or anything else with it beyond registering an account. volunteer donates dns and domain control of to volunteers of unicorn, but holds up transferring control of the domain to the treasurer@ Volunteers created the literal forum of their own volition using docker, nginx and other tools with no oversight. All details added to noisebridge wiki. Victoria creates the forum. others took over admin. many other services created as well. Gandi domain registrar created and give total control to treasurer@ volunteer still not wanting to turn over control of I believe this did eventually happen via nb gandi registrar Noisetor now uses Unicorn at least partially Forum falls into disarray and most volunteers are gone so I create an ssh account on unicorn during covid isolation and begin repairing forum problems, then begin adding improvements and requesting help via forum and slack. I hope metaguild will allow us to help each other. Example: help gamebridge interface with the forum and other sources for spreading the word. Allow users of these platforms to interact with our public forum and provide other resources to the community. If it does not make sense to work together, I'm happy to provide better documentation and continue working independently. It would be nice to pass my credentials along to others who can be trusted to help mnanage and maintain them, as the social media group has done with their passwords on github via a keepass database.

If Marco needs a host, Unicorn + Cyberpunks Guild is there and ready for deployment in any capacity.