Talk:85

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== Out of hand ==
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== Misunderstandings about 85 ==
  
So I'm seeing edit wars and that sucks but there's kind of no option because there's no talk page and now there is so take it here, guys.
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*An anonymous coward wrote:
  
I'm wikitransposing a bunch of stuff from the articlespace to here because it's getting out of hand and crufty. Maybe we should start a new page called [[Beef]], and you can just talk shit about people in the space or not in the space bugging you, either signing your posts or like an anonymous little coward. But at the beginning of this page it says, "This is a place to keep track of ... people who have been asked to leave Noisebridge ..." So for now, let's just limit it to that, yeah? If someone hasn't been explicitly individually asked to leave the space, please leave them off [[85]]. As it is it's turning into a "people part of subcultures I don't like" page. 'Cause otherwise this thing is going to get ridiculous and way out of control, with oogles and other annoying individuals. And let's face it, in a place dedicated to people with limited social skills, almost everybody's a bit fucking annoying.
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''So I'm seeing edit wars and that sucks but there's kind of no option because there's no talk page and now there is so take it here, guys.
<font color="#ff0000">&lt;3</font>
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== Old beef ==
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''I'm wikitransposing a bunch of stuff from the articlespace to here because it's getting out of hand and crufty. Maybe we should start a new page called [[Beef]], and you can just talk shit about people in the space or not in the space bugging you, either signing your posts or like an anonymous little coward. But at the beginning of this page it says, "This is a place to keep track of ... people who have been asked to leave Noisebridge ..." So for now, let's just limit it to that, yeah? If someone hasn't been explicitly individually asked to leave the space, please leave them off [[85]]. As it is it's turning into a "people part of subcultures I don't like" page. 'Cause otherwise this thing is going to get ridiculous and way out of control, with oogles and other annoying individuals. And let's face it, in a place dedicated to people with limited social skills, almost everybody's a bit fucking annoying.
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<font color="#ff0000">&lt;3</font>'''
  
=The [http://lookatthisfuckingoogle.tumblr.com/ Oogles] =
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Sorry Anonymous Coward, this is completely wrong. 85 is not a list of people who have been kicked out of the space, as implied by your bad attempt at selective quoting (...) above. It's to help solve a specific problem of the space being invaded by non-hackers. It's a tool to help us determine who the problem users of the space are and then ask them to leave. (Jesse Z.)
  
''Some people'' seem to have gotten the impression Noisebridge is a 24-hour hangout and drop-in center, whether or not sleep is permitted. With refrigerators where you can leave your food.
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It wasn't an attempt at selective quoting... it was selective quoting. I'd think the ellipses made that obvious and explicit. If you'd read what was actually written, you'd see I was labouring under no misimpression that this was exclusively a list of people who have been kicked out. I merely suggested that the page needed clearer focus - or don't you feel it's become crufty? People annoyed with Rayc included him on the page. Does anyone disagree that he can be difficult to deal with sometimes? But do you think he belongs on this page? I don't. But "unexcellent" is by nature subjective. Jargon file and Mitch Altman puppet shows aside, the definition of "hacker" is a contentious one as well. So then why not include rayc? or is moving shelves now "hacking" because we like him?
  
The following people have used Noisebridge as a crashpad and the general sentiment seems to be that they are not making the space more Excellent.
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So if we can't come up with clearer criteria for inclusion on the page, let's just move it to "[[oogles]]" and anybody who dresses too white trash or takes the Gaia theory too seriously can go on it. It had become a subcultural witchhunt, and, I felt, not productive. You understand that the more people who can become included on the page, the less power and significance it has.
  
==Anthony==
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Some people ("''some people''") had perhaps been swept into this understandably zealous purging of counterrevolutionary elements, and painted with a broad brush. I never heard of Jedi before this whole pack of mush-brained self-styled anarchists and spangers descended upon Noisebridge in Amber's wake. Was he part of her original crew in tow? Or does he just happen to wear a beanie and camo? Who knows? Who cares? I think it was Shannon at the last meeting who made an allusion to folks enduring religious sermons for their supper, and being just as willing to "learn[...] to speak hacker" for a meal here - well, if it looks like a hacker and it quacks like a hacker... that's still better than merely asserting that because you're "with Occupy" or a human being you have a right to be in the space. If you're tinkering with stuff and seem like you're making a genuine effort to learn and interface with the existing culture I think there are a lot of people who will go to bat for you, regardless of how you got here. If nothing else, he seems to have a knowledge of the 'Net beyond checking his e-mail or of hardware hacking beyond making bongs out of whatever happens to be lying around on the shop floor. Do we now kick people out for knowing people who we haven't kicked out but don't like? If this page is merely an "on notice" page for people to shape up their behaviour, then why the endless pro/con battles below everybody's name?
  
==Purple==
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That first night [https://www.noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Non_gratae&oldid=23048 I added all those names] in response to Kelly's desire to document incidents, I cast a wide net. If I didn't recognize you and you even ''looked like'' you could have ever owned a Limp Bizkit or Insane Clown Posse CD, I tried to put you on the list, even/especially if I didn't get your name. There was just such an onslaught, it felt out of control and I didn't feel I had the luxury to be discriminating. It was mostly public scratch paper to figure out who's who among these new faces in the space, many of whom were blatantly abusing it. I didn't intend it to be a long-term document of people we didn't like. And that vagueness is exactly what caused the page to be immediately sabotaged by other Noisebridge regulars.
  
==Jedi==
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Including questionable cases muddies the waters and undermines the very purpose this page was created for - to empower people to feel like they have institutional support to ask people to leave for unexcellent behaviour.
*(edited by self) James Young (tall, goatee, black bandana)
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*I have NOT been sleeping in the space. But I am a night owl.
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*I; at heart; am a: Hacker, Scholar, Philosopher, Psychologist, Sociologist, Scientist, and anything else I choose to be.
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*I did, essentially, plan to attend every class offered by the space, but, I have been very busy with other endeavors the space has assisted me with.
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*I have purchased a Noisebridge T-Shirt to show my appreciation for what it stands for.
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*I Have donated at least 4 lb.s of coffee. (n/m, i know) And bunch of tea that just disappeared.(I know it didn't go too far, lol.)
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*I Also purchased dish soap twice now for the space at times when it was needed. (Again, wish it was more.)
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*I have not used the space to store anything, less the projects I started, that were soon after, tossed or hacked by others.
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*I squared off with Jon(athon) every step of the way as he made his attempts that ONE Saturday night, even when we all thought he really did have a gun. I stopped him from getting to the fire escape, restrained him with the help of Rayc and Derek to remove from him, his bags. Then I personally, and physically, removed him from the space via wrist/arm-lock and force.
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*There was an incident where I had began to hack three old computer towers. After I was done for the night, I cleaned up, I put it all away. After only 12 hours, I returned to find that someone had taken up my hack and finished stripping most of it all that I needed, but they didn't clean up after themselves. So I not only lost my hack, I was blamed for their mess.
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Maybe this is just a page to compare notes on people who've acted inappropriately. But then rayc doesn't get a pass just because he doesn't dress like Shaggy from "Scooby-Doo" or talk like a stoner. And certainly people don't get to censor others' comments just because someone on this list is their friend.
  
I DO try to associate with everyone, So guilty by lifestyle and association, I suppose. I am house-less, But I still have the passion to create, to learn, to dabble, and hack. I still know what respect is. Ending up on this list has halted my decision to join for the moment. I feel like I almost threw money away! I'm being called a Oogle? Excuse me, That is offensive! What happened to being excellent to each other?? -Jedi
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Edit/P.S.: Oh, God. Now, look, they've gone and added Justin. Do you seriously doubt this is going to degenerate into anything but a drama-ass slapfight if some clearer criteria aren't established? Do you really think merely being an obnoxious fucktard is grounds to be permanantly barred from the space? You don't think anyone'll block that?
  
==Derek==
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If not, then please, I reiterate, please limit [[85]] to people you think engage in particular bannable offences, or else grow a fucking pair and tell them to their face why they're annoying, or try to kick them out yourself and then add them.<br>&lt;3 eric
(guy with cane who isn't Zack)
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*Has not slept or stored stuff at the space in any way.
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*"Please only re-add someone if you know for a fact they've been asked to leave and have specifically refused or been escorted out." --Eric
*Assisted with Removing Jonathon from the space
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*Sorry Eric, that is just not correct. This page is to compare notes with people who may think a person's presence in inappropriate. If a person has already been asked to leave they may be placed on the 86 page. I have not seen Amber in four days and the space has been MUCH MUCH improved as a result. I would very much like it if she never returned. (Jesse Z.)
*Has been active in utilizing the space productively.
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*Iraq War Veteran with two purple hearts. (edited by Jedi)
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==Nyle==
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* No, if you look at [[86]] you'll see that's simply not the way it's worked so far. 86 has been strictly for people who had to be forcibly ejected from Noisebridge for the immediate security of others or their property. 85 has included people who were asked to leave, whether or not they protested or wanted to state their case at a meeting. (Eric)
* That guy who all he ever does is play guitar
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* This person's name is Niles, and when I spoked to him all he ever talks about is playing guitar. It is rather peculiar that he stays here every single night to play his guitar, and make food. In addition I haven't seem him do much else besides hang out in the exact same place in the library using his laptop or playing his guitar. (Rayc)
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* He talks occasionally about circuit hacking, but he's also pretty good at shoplifting from Whole Foods.  He's on speaking terms with a couple of people who frequent the space.  He's not a menace but it's pretty clear he's just here for the wireless and free food in the evenings.
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* He's ALWAYS in the chair next to the bookshelves in the middle of the space. Asian. Is doing something on his netbook with headphones plugged in.  I bet he's there right now.
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* HE NEEDS TO STOP LEAVING HIS GUITAR AND NETBOOK HERE LIKE THIS IS HIS HOME. He left both of them in the library again. - RAYC
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* NYLE SAYS: sorry that I exist, I am a terrible, evil person that deserves to be shot in the head.
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* 85 is a jury, not a judge. It's a place to discuss people you are concerned about but not certain enough about to unilaterally ban. You should not put anyone on 85 unless you think there's a serious possibility they should be asked to leave, and the purpose is not to slander but to facilitate community input to the decision process. If it were really the case that people should only be there after they've been asked to leave, then we'd have an 84 page for the purpose 85 currently serves. (Jesse Z)
:firstly, the "free food" thing is a flat out lie. 98% of the food I eat at noisebridge is courtesy of the government. the other 2% of the food I eat is raw meat and rocks I find laying around on the street.
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:I have donated almost 2 dollars to noisebridge and have taken care to wash my dishes, lift the toilet seat, and recycle.  
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:PROJECTS I AM CURRENTLY WORKING ON:
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* Then Rayc belongs there. &lt;3 eric
:-a collection of poetry and short stories in the form of a zine.
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:-a vending machine costume.
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:-repairing the pickup selector on my gtr.
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:I have zero interest in hacking or tech toys made by child slaves in china. I will take my shit elsewhere and probably leave san francisco within the next 10 days.
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* 24.5.89.214 -- Sorry if this seems like edit warring. I just didn't feel certain that by merely placing a comment here you'd see it.<br>I am not attached to the idea of Rayc/Justin/whoever on [[85]] one way or another. But now we're conflating multiple issues. Either 85 is a space for those who have acted particularly unexcellently in one or more people's eyes ''or'' it's a page for homeless people/we don't like ''or'' it's a page for people who've been asked to leave. Since James Z. asserted it was not merely for people who are potentially banned, I readded the slashfic. Since to my knowledge neither Amber, Anthony, Cynthia, Derek, James, Jedi, Nyle, nor the yogurt cup guy has been personally asked to leave and it seemed to be becoming more soapbox than resource, I proposed more stringent criteria for inclusion. But it's clear from these edits those criteria have never been explicit nor agreed upon.<br>If you still want to take off Robert + Justin I ask that you remove the aforementioned names as well. If James insists on their inclusion, then I think we need to come to some consensus on what, exactly, it is that this page is listing. &lt;3 eric
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* Although I think we can agree lurk moar != potentially asked to leave. er*
  
==Cynthia==
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* OK. Fine. I tried. I really tried to assume good faith and to make this page both fair and a useful resource. We appear to be going in circles here. Are you illiterate or just fucking stupid? Probably you're just ignoring me. But it's become obvious the purpose of [[shit talking|85]] is in fact NO PEOPLE WHO LOOK POOR ALLOWED. Whatever. If that's consensus I guess everybody's happy. (Eric)
* is usually seen in the kitchen. almost always wearing a 9/11 Truth Sheeple shirt.
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* can be challenging to communicate with and has some unusual ideas, but enjoys discussing science and cleans the kitchen! She sleeps at a shelter and not Noisebridge.
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* Tony: https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2012-February/027802.html
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* Zephyr: https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2012-February/027831.html
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==Yogurt Container Man== 
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* I don't think 85 is a place exclusively for people who have been asked to leave, but if you have asked someone to leave, you should certainly add them to 85. If they were forced to leave because of the immediate danger they posed to the space or the community, they should go on 86. I agree with the way [[user:Hurtstotouchfire|Kelly] described it (paraphrase, not quote). [[User:Flamsmark|Flamsmark]] 17:26, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
*I forget his name. Nice guy, unshaven, pretending extremely hard to not be homeless, plays chess, is really handy at repairing the Occupiers clothes with a needle and thread or with the sewing machines. Stores random things in the shelves in the middle of the space.
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<blockquote>
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We don't demand that everybody is hacking every moment that they spend at Noisebridge. It's completely legitimate to take a break from your project to have a soda, shoot the breeze, or check your email. So, if you see someone in the space who's relaxing, not hacking (or planning to hack, learning to hack &c), you don't know whether you've just wandered in as they're taking a breather. Even if that happens a few times, you don't know whether you just keep catching them at the wrong moments. Even if a dozen people only ever see them "between hacking" no one of them can be sure that they aren't just catching this person at the wrong moments. However, if we record these things we can know that a particular person has only been seen "between hacking" by twenty people over the last month. At that point if you see them in the space "between hacking" you have a much more compelling basis on which to ask them to leave because they are not hacking at the space.
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</blockquote>
  
==Amber==
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<b>"For we're excellent to each other here<br>
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We rarely ever block <br>
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We value tools over pre-emptive rules <br>
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And spurn the key and the lock. <br>
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      — Danny O'Brien, 2010-11-09 general meeting notes"</b>
  
*I realize it's hard to define 'hacking'.  I'm not sure if I'm much of a hacker.  All I do is show up for a couple of classes a week.  Last week I showed some guy how to insert Debian Stable into his laptop.  Am I a hacker?  Not sure.  But I'm pretty sure showing up every day at 6 and cooking up a mess of free food for the Occupiers is farther from the definition of hacking.
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== Old beef ==
  
*[[User:Hurtstotouchfire]] 05:33, 12 February 2012 (UTC): This evening I met Amber and her friend Nick and talked with her about sleeping in the space. She says that she's new to the community and that there have been false rumors spread about her. I got her email address and will chat with her a bit more later either electronically or in the space. Update: talked to Amber a little more that evening. She said that she objected to someone waking a sleeper once because she had just given the sleeper in question a massage and he dozed off. It was 4 or 5am at the time. I suggested that 4am massages might be more appropriate for someone's house since they tend to lead to sleeping, and sleeping is a really touchy issue in the space right now. Amber is not on the mailing list and didn't know about the wiki or the tuesday meeting. I encouraged her to get involved if she wants to keep hanging around. She is keeping a personal supply of food in the kitchen, including a flat of eggs. I haven't looked all the way though it and I didn't ask her about it (maybe I should have). She told me that she was available for helping people with astrology and that she bakes pies in the middle of the night but didn't seem to be interested in any of Noisebridge's resources other than the kitchen, couches and wifi. She identifies as an occupier. She seems like probably a reasonably nice person but not especially interested in understanding the established community agreements about excellence. She seems to think all of her behavior is excellent. She seemed pretty annoyed at me by the end of our discussion. Rayc also spent much of the discussion pretending to be her lawyer ("My client..." jokes) even though I asked him to stop and pointed out that I'm not a cop and I'm not their mom, I'm just trying to understand what's going on at noisebridge.
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==Rayc==
  
*About 5'2", female, brown stringy shoulder length hair, mid to late 20s. Amber has by all accounts been bringing in new people to hang out on a regular basis. The primary attraction for said people seems to be her own prolific cooking and kitchen access in general, which makes their presence in general a non-benefit to the space. (Jesse Z.
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* Robert is at Noisebridge a lot. He enjoys giving tours of the place.  Occasionally he rubs people the wrong way. ( FIGURATIVELY ).
  
*Amber is an excellent person and she does not belong on the 85 page. It seems like your complaint with Amber is that she has friends.  I have met her friends and most are good people.  I had a talk with her the other day and told her to be careful not to bring anyone into the space who is not a creative/hacker type.  She agreed to be mindful of the people she invites.  I propose removing Amber from the 85 page unless there is some reason you can articulate that she should remain here.   (Alan)
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==[https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Quotes&diff=23723&oldid=23513 JustinDoerr]==
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* Justin emails the mailing list a lot about his feelings.  I humbly suggest he start a blog, then email everyone a pointer to it.
  
*Some people have friends. Some people do not have friends.  who cares.  Amber is one of the fundamental reasons Noisebridge is turning into San Francisco's newest homeless drop in center, with free wireless and a place to store your food and extra clothing, because of her.  She needs to go.
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=The [http://lookatthisfuckingoogle.tumblr.com/ Oogles] =
  
*Amber is, by all accounts, dumb as nails. She should go on 86.
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''Some people'' seem to have gotten the impression Noisebridge is a 24-hour hangout and drop-in center, whether or not sleep is permitted. With refrigerators where you can leave your food.
  
*For my money, I've articulated to others that Amber is '''not''' quite dumb as a gym sock. I think there's a reason she's become the de facto leader of the directionless: she has slightly more common sense and understanding of best practices for societal interaction than the rest of them, and plus her raging, incorrigible maternal tendencies. She just has an unjustifiably outsized estimation of her own abilities and a staggeringly profound [[No Astrology|lack of critical thinking]]. Maybe it would be an awesome class for Noisebridge and the community at large if someone wants to put on an Intro to Science and Logic course and invite Amber? I'm not joking; I think this, like the intolerably classist and condescending [[Science For Juggalos|Science for Juggalos]], would be an invaluable service for an increasingly scientifically illiterate electorate in an increasingly informationally complex world.
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The following people have been accused of using Noisebridge as a crashpad and the general sentiment seems to be that they are not making the space more Excellent.
*It's quite possible she should just be asked to not come back, though.
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==James==
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==Anthony==
  
*Skinnyish, slightly stooped, 50 years old, curly brown hair to the shoulders, wears a golf-style cap and black jacket with Noisebridge sticker. I have often heard him engage in loud arguments and also inappropriate discussions. I overheard him giving a tour of the space today where he explained that Noisebridge "used to be" about communications and technology, but now it's about Occupy and making food in the kitchen. He lives close by and has a key. James refused to attend a Tuesday meeting to explain himself. (Jesse Z.)
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==Purple==
*His loud and inane discussions and conversations (usually on the politics of homelessness) have caused me to seek out a quieter place to hack on at least two occasions. (Jonathan T.)
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==Rayc==
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==Derek==  
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*guy with cane who isn't Zack
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*Has not slept or stored stuff at the space in any way.
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*Assisted with Removing Jonathon from the space
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*Has been active in utilizing the space productively.
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*Iraq War Veteran with two purple hearts. (edited by Jedi)
  
Rayc lives at Noisebridge. He doesn't always sleep here, but when he does he feels entitled as fuck. '''He tells people he works for Noisebridge and thus is allowed to sleep here.''' He decides who else is allowed. He gives everyone tours, he's giving one right now as I write this, and as usual 90% of wat he is telling people is cringe-inducingly absurd bogus nonsense. He is frequently obviously under the influence of substances of the "upper" variety, and exhibits classic tweaker behaviors like constant reorganizing and "soldering" with plastic (making hella toxic fumes, wtf, please ask him to stop). Rayc obviously means well, but sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. Rayc should stop trying to improve Noisebridge infrastructure, stop giving tours, and generally LURK MOAR (aka stfu and chill the fuck out).
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==Yogurt Container Man== 
 
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*I forget his nameNice guy, unshaven, pretending extremely hard to not be homeless, plays chess, is really handy at repairing the Occupiers clothes with a needle and thread or with the sewing machines. Stores random things in the shelves in the middle of the space.
* I, for one, want to say I love rayc' tours. If you have a specific criticism, please mention it, so we can perpetuate awesome institutional culture for newcomers and learn from each other, but it seems to me that rayc always gives tours, when no one else is willing to, that, if nothing else, leave first-time visitors excited and inspired. Whatever other bullshit falls out of his mouth, who cares? People can figure out the rest for themselves, right? As long as they're here and willing to contribute and learn. And that's what rayc' tours do.
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* Nile, is that you? I thought you were moving out of the space finally.
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----
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Look, I realize Amber, despite her protestations, was the catalyst for much of this. But, to my knowledge, she's never been escorted out of the space. Recently, in fact, she has been making an effort to be more productive, disavow her previous aquaintances, and integrate/interface better with the space. This has redeemed her in the eyes of some, but by no means all, regulars. So she dresses like a hippie and engages in logical fallacies when debating. If that's enough to not want her in the space, then grow a pair and ask her respectfully to not come back until the next Tuesday [[meetings|meeting]]. If not, then shut up and stop talking shit, or at least filling up [[85]] with rants.
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Please only re-add someone if you know for a fact they've been asked to leave and have specifically refused or been escorted out. --Eric
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Latest revision as of 19:31, 7 March 2012

Contents

[edit] Misunderstandings about 85

  • An anonymous coward wrote:

So I'm seeing edit wars and that sucks but there's kind of no option because there's no talk page and now there is so take it here, guys.

I'm wikitransposing a bunch of stuff from the articlespace to here because it's getting out of hand and crufty. Maybe we should start a new page called Beef, and you can just talk shit about people in the space or not in the space bugging you, either signing your posts or like an anonymous little coward. But at the beginning of this page it says, "This is a place to keep track of ... people who have been asked to leave Noisebridge ..." So for now, let's just limit it to that, yeah? If someone hasn't been explicitly individually asked to leave the space, please leave them off 85. As it is it's turning into a "people part of subcultures I don't like" page. 'Cause otherwise this thing is going to get ridiculous and way out of control, with oogles and other annoying individuals. And let's face it, in a place dedicated to people with limited social skills, almost everybody's a bit fucking annoying. <3

Sorry Anonymous Coward, this is completely wrong. 85 is not a list of people who have been kicked out of the space, as implied by your bad attempt at selective quoting (...) above. It's to help solve a specific problem of the space being invaded by non-hackers. It's a tool to help us determine who the problem users of the space are and then ask them to leave. (Jesse Z.)

It wasn't an attempt at selective quoting... it was selective quoting. I'd think the ellipses made that obvious and explicit. If you'd read what was actually written, you'd see I was labouring under no misimpression that this was exclusively a list of people who have been kicked out. I merely suggested that the page needed clearer focus - or don't you feel it's become crufty? People annoyed with Rayc included him on the page. Does anyone disagree that he can be difficult to deal with sometimes? But do you think he belongs on this page? I don't. But "unexcellent" is by nature subjective. Jargon file and Mitch Altman puppet shows aside, the definition of "hacker" is a contentious one as well. So then why not include rayc? or is moving shelves now "hacking" because we like him?

So if we can't come up with clearer criteria for inclusion on the page, let's just move it to "oogles" and anybody who dresses too white trash or takes the Gaia theory too seriously can go on it. It had become a subcultural witchhunt, and, I felt, not productive. You understand that the more people who can become included on the page, the less power and significance it has.

Some people ("some people") had perhaps been swept into this understandably zealous purging of counterrevolutionary elements, and painted with a broad brush. I never heard of Jedi before this whole pack of mush-brained self-styled anarchists and spangers descended upon Noisebridge in Amber's wake. Was he part of her original crew in tow? Or does he just happen to wear a beanie and camo? Who knows? Who cares? I think it was Shannon at the last meeting who made an allusion to folks enduring religious sermons for their supper, and being just as willing to "learn[...] to speak hacker" for a meal here - well, if it looks like a hacker and it quacks like a hacker... that's still better than merely asserting that because you're "with Occupy" or a human being you have a right to be in the space. If you're tinkering with stuff and seem like you're making a genuine effort to learn and interface with the existing culture I think there are a lot of people who will go to bat for you, regardless of how you got here. If nothing else, he seems to have a knowledge of the 'Net beyond checking his e-mail or of hardware hacking beyond making bongs out of whatever happens to be lying around on the shop floor. Do we now kick people out for knowing people who we haven't kicked out but don't like? If this page is merely an "on notice" page for people to shape up their behaviour, then why the endless pro/con battles below everybody's name?

That first night I added all those names in response to Kelly's desire to document incidents, I cast a wide net. If I didn't recognize you and you even looked like you could have ever owned a Limp Bizkit or Insane Clown Posse CD, I tried to put you on the list, even/especially if I didn't get your name. There was just such an onslaught, it felt out of control and I didn't feel I had the luxury to be discriminating. It was mostly public scratch paper to figure out who's who among these new faces in the space, many of whom were blatantly abusing it. I didn't intend it to be a long-term document of people we didn't like. And that vagueness is exactly what caused the page to be immediately sabotaged by other Noisebridge regulars.

Including questionable cases muddies the waters and undermines the very purpose this page was created for - to empower people to feel like they have institutional support to ask people to leave for unexcellent behaviour.

Maybe this is just a page to compare notes on people who've acted inappropriately. But then rayc doesn't get a pass just because he doesn't dress like Shaggy from "Scooby-Doo" or talk like a stoner. And certainly people don't get to censor others' comments just because someone on this list is their friend.

Edit/P.S.: Oh, God. Now, look, they've gone and added Justin. Do you seriously doubt this is going to degenerate into anything but a drama-ass slapfight if some clearer criteria aren't established? Do you really think merely being an obnoxious fucktard is grounds to be permanantly barred from the space? You don't think anyone'll block that?

If not, then please, I reiterate, please limit 85 to people you think engage in particular bannable offences, or else grow a fucking pair and tell them to their face why they're annoying, or try to kick them out yourself and then add them.
<3 eric

  • "Please only re-add someone if you know for a fact they've been asked to leave and have specifically refused or been escorted out." --Eric
  • Sorry Eric, that is just not correct. This page is to compare notes with people who may think a person's presence in inappropriate. If a person has already been asked to leave they may be placed on the 86 page. I have not seen Amber in four days and the space has been MUCH MUCH improved as a result. I would very much like it if she never returned. (Jesse Z.)
  • No, if you look at 86 you'll see that's simply not the way it's worked so far. 86 has been strictly for people who had to be forcibly ejected from Noisebridge for the immediate security of others or their property. 85 has included people who were asked to leave, whether or not they protested or wanted to state their case at a meeting. (Eric)
  • 85 is a jury, not a judge. It's a place to discuss people you are concerned about but not certain enough about to unilaterally ban. You should not put anyone on 85 unless you think there's a serious possibility they should be asked to leave, and the purpose is not to slander but to facilitate community input to the decision process. If it were really the case that people should only be there after they've been asked to leave, then we'd have an 84 page for the purpose 85 currently serves. (Jesse Z)
  • Then Rayc belongs there. <3 eric
  • 24.5.89.214 -- Sorry if this seems like edit warring. I just didn't feel certain that by merely placing a comment here you'd see it.
    I am not attached to the idea of Rayc/Justin/whoever on 85 one way or another. But now we're conflating multiple issues. Either 85 is a space for those who have acted particularly unexcellently in one or more people's eyes or it's a page for homeless people/we don't like or it's a page for people who've been asked to leave. Since James Z. asserted it was not merely for people who are potentially banned, I readded the slashfic. Since to my knowledge neither Amber, Anthony, Cynthia, Derek, James, Jedi, Nyle, nor the yogurt cup guy has been personally asked to leave and it seemed to be becoming more soapbox than resource, I proposed more stringent criteria for inclusion. But it's clear from these edits those criteria have never been explicit nor agreed upon.
    If you still want to take off Robert + Justin I ask that you remove the aforementioned names as well. If James insists on their inclusion, then I think we need to come to some consensus on what, exactly, it is that this page is listing. <3 eric
  • Although I think we can agree lurk moar != potentially asked to leave. er*
  • OK. Fine. I tried. I really tried to assume good faith and to make this page both fair and a useful resource. We appear to be going in circles here. Are you illiterate or just fucking stupid? Probably you're just ignoring me. But it's become obvious the purpose of 85 is in fact NO PEOPLE WHO LOOK POOR ALLOWED. Whatever. If that's consensus I guess everybody's happy. (Eric)
  • I don't think 85 is a place exclusively for people who have been asked to leave, but if you have asked someone to leave, you should certainly add them to 85. If they were forced to leave because of the immediate danger they posed to the space or the community, they should go on 86. I agree with the way [[user:Hurtstotouchfire|Kelly] described it (paraphrase, not quote). Flamsmark 17:26, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
We don't demand that everybody is hacking every moment that they spend at Noisebridge. It's completely legitimate to take a break from your project to have a soda, shoot the breeze, or check your email. So, if you see someone in the space who's relaxing, not hacking (or planning to hack, learning to hack &c), you don't know whether you've just wandered in as they're taking a breather. Even if that happens a few times, you don't know whether you just keep catching them at the wrong moments. Even if a dozen people only ever see them "between hacking" no one of them can be sure that they aren't just catching this person at the wrong moments. However, if we record these things we can know that a particular person has only been seen "between hacking" by twenty people over the last month. At that point if you see them in the space "between hacking" you have a much more compelling basis on which to ask them to leave because they are not hacking at the space.

"For we're excellent to each other here
We rarely ever block
We value tools over pre-emptive rules
And spurn the key and the lock.

      — Danny O'Brien, 2010-11-09 general meeting notes"

[edit] Old beef

[edit] Rayc

  • Robert is at Noisebridge a lot. He enjoys giving tours of the place. Occasionally he rubs people the wrong way. ( FIGURATIVELY ).

[edit] JustinDoerr

  • Justin emails the mailing list a lot about his feelings. I humbly suggest he start a blog, then email everyone a pointer to it.

[edit] The Oogles

Some people seem to have gotten the impression Noisebridge is a 24-hour hangout and drop-in center, whether or not sleep is permitted. With refrigerators where you can leave your food.

The following people have been accused of using Noisebridge as a crashpad and the general sentiment seems to be that they are not making the space more Excellent.

[edit] Anthony

[edit] Purple

[edit] Derek

  • guy with cane who isn't Zack
  • Has not slept or stored stuff at the space in any way.
  • Assisted with Removing Jonathon from the space
  • Has been active in utilizing the space productively.
  • Iraq War Veteran with two purple hearts. (edited by Jedi)

[edit] Yogurt Container Man

  • I forget his name. Nice guy, unshaven, pretending extremely hard to not be homeless, plays chess, is really handy at repairing the Occupiers clothes with a needle and thread or with the sewing machines. Stores random things in the shelves in the middle of the space.
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