Talk:85

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Misunderstandings about 85

  • An anonymous coward wrote:

So I'm seeing edit wars and that sucks but there's kind of no option because there's no talk page and now there is so take it here, guys.

I'm wikitransposing a bunch of stuff from the articlespace to here because it's getting out of hand and crufty. Maybe we should start a new page called Beef, and you can just talk shit about people in the space or not in the space bugging you, either signing your posts or like an anonymous little coward. But at the beginning of this page it says, "This is a place to keep track of ... people who have been asked to leave Noisebridge ..." So for now, let's just limit it to that, yeah? If someone hasn't been explicitly individually asked to leave the space, please leave them off 85. As it is it's turning into a "people part of subcultures I don't like" page. 'Cause otherwise this thing is going to get ridiculous and way out of control, with oogles and other annoying individuals. And let's face it, in a place dedicated to people with limited social skills, almost everybody's a bit fucking annoying. <3

Sorry Anonymous Coward, this is completely wrong. 85 is not a list of people who have been kicked out of the space, as implied by your bad attempt at selective quoting (...) above. It's to help solve a specific problem of the space being invaded by non-hackers. It's a tool to help us determine who the problem users of the space are and then ask them to leave. (Jesse Z.)

It wasn't an attempt at selective quoting... it was selective quoting. I'd think the ellipses made that obvious and explicit. If you'd read what was actually written, you'd see I was labouring under no misimpression that this was exclusively a list of people who have been kicked out. I merely suggested that the page needed clearer focus - or don't you feel it's become crufty? People annoyed with Rayc included him on the page. Does anyone disagree that he can be difficult to deal with sometimes? But do you think he belongs on this page? I don't. But "unexcellent" is by nature subjective. Jargon file and Mitch Altman puppet shows aside, the definition of "hacker" is a contentious one as well. So then why not include rayc? or is moving shelves now "hacking" because we like him?

So if we can't come up with clearer criteria for inclusion on the page, let's just move it to "oogles" and anybody who dresses too white trash or takes the Gaia theory too seriously can go on it. It had become a subcultural witchhunt, and, I felt, not productive. You understand that the more people who can become included on the page, the less power and significance it has.

Some people ("some people") had perhaps been swept into this understandably zealous purging of counterrevolutionary elements, and painted with a broad brush. I never heard of Jedi before this whole pack of mush-brained self-styled anarchists and spangers descended upon Noisebridge in Amber's wake. Was he part of her original crew in tow? Or does he just happen to wear a beanie and camo? Who knows? Who cares? I think it was Shannon at the last meeting who made an allusion to folks enduring religious sermons for their supper, and being just as willing to "learn[...] to speak hacker" for a meal here - well, if it looks like a hacker and it quacks like a hacker... that's still better than merely asserting that because you're "with Occupy" or a human being you have a right to be in the space. If you're tinkering with stuff and seem like you're making a genuine effort to learn and interface with the existing culture I think there are a lot of people who will go to bat for you, regardless of how you got here. If nothing else, he seems to have a knowledge of the 'Net beyond checking his e-mail or of hardware hacking beyond making bongs out of whatever happens to be lying around on the shop floor. Do we now kick people out for knowing people who we haven't kicked out but don't like? If this page is merely an "on notice" page for people to shape up their behaviour, then why the endless pro/con battles below everybody's name?

That first night I added all those names in response to Kelly's desire to document incidents, I cast a wide net. If I didn't recognize you and you even looked like you could have ever owned a Limp Bizkit or Insane Clown Posse CD, I tried to put you on the list, even/especially if I didn't get your name. There was just such an onslaught, it felt out of control and I didn't feel I had the luxury to be discriminating. It was mostly public scratch paper to figure out who's who among these new faces in the space, many of whom were blatantly abusing it. I didn't intend it to be a long-term document of people we didn't like. And that vagueness is exactly what caused the page to be immediately sabotaged by other Noisebridge regulars.

Including questionable cases muddies the waters and undermines the very purpose this page was created for - to empower people to feel like they have institutional support to ask people to leave for unexcellent behaviour.

Maybe this is just a page to compare notes on people who've acted inappropriately. But then rayc doesn't get a pass just because he doesn't dress like Shaggy from "Scooby-Doo" or talk like a stoner. And certainly people don't get to censor others' comments just because someone on this list is their friend.

Edit/P.S.: Oh, God. Now, look, they've gone and added Justin. Do you seriously doubt this is going to degenerate into anything but a drama-ass slapfight if some clearer criteria aren't established? Do you really think merely being an obnoxious fucktard is grounds to be permanantly barred from the space? You don't think anyone'll block that?

If not, then please, I reiterate, please limit 85 to people you think engage in particular bannable offences, or else grow a fucking pair and tell them to their face why they're annoying, or try to kick them out yourself and then add them.
<3 eric

  • "Please only re-add someone if you know for a fact they've been asked to leave and have specifically refused or been escorted out." --Eric
  • Sorry Eric, that is just not correct. This page is to compare notes with people who may think a person's presence in inappropriate. If a person has already been asked to leave they may be placed on the 86 page. I have not seen Amber in four days and the space has been MUCH MUCH improved as a result. I would very much like it if she never returned. (Jesse Z.)
  • No, if you look at 86 you'll see that's simply not the way it's worked so far. 86 has been strictly for people who had to be forcibly ejected from Noisebridge for the immediate security of others or their property. 85 has included people who were asked to leave, whether or not they protested or wanted to state their case at a meeting. (Eric)

Old beef

The Oogles

Some people seem to have gotten the impression Noisebridge is a 24-hour hangout and drop-in center, whether or not sleep is permitted. With refrigerators where you can leave your food.

The following people have been accused of using Noisebridge as a crashpad and the general sentiment seems to be that they are not making the space more Excellent.

Anthony

Purple

Derek

  • guy with cane who isn't Zack
  • Has not slept or stored stuff at the space in any way.
  • Assisted with Removing Jonathon from the space
  • Has been active in utilizing the space productively.
  • Iraq War Veteran with two purple hearts. (edited by Jedi)

Yogurt Container Man

  • I forget his name. Nice guy, unshaven, pretending extremely hard to not be homeless, plays chess, is really handy at repairing the Occupiers clothes with a needle and thread or with the sewing machines. Stores random things in the shelves in the middle of the space.
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