[Noisebridge-board] Re: Making Decisions and then backing out after concensus has been reached (was Re: Ick)

Jacob Appelbaum jacob at appelbaum.net
Wed Oct 1 13:20:28 PDT 2008


Noah Balmer wrote:
> I thought I had been heard by a number of people and I thought David was
> among them. Apparently I was mistaken.
> 

If you're feeling really strongly, I really really think it's important
to ensure that the note taking person records your feeling on the issue.
 I did not hear you say that you blocked outright. I explicitly heard
that we had reached consensus.

> However, if that was a consensus, I'm the king of france.  A bunch of people
> shouting until someone shouts louder that it's time to move on is not
> consensus.

I agree. That's why we said something to the effect of (I said it a few
times, I was not the only one): "Do we have concensus? Does anyone
object? Can we move on? Please speak up and be heard if you feel you
haven't been heard."

> 
> A number of people, including lawyers in the field of non-profit law, tell
> me that the liability situation changes with incorporation and insurance.
> What are your grounds for disagreement?

This is where it started to get complicated. My grounds for disagreement
come from your very non specific language. Previously you stated that
once Noisebridge is on the lease, we can give out keys, no?

That event happens as soon as we are a California Nonprofit and we call
the landlord to change the lease. The landlord will then present us with
a new lease, someone (or several someones) will have to sign that lease
as an agent of Noisebridge.

At this point, we're the board of directors and until people pay
membership dues, we're the _only_ legal people involved. We're the ones
legally liable. We'll be named on a lawsuit in addition to Noisebridge
itself.

This brings us to the subject of insurance. There are several kinds
we've researched. The general liability insurance for the space we're
required to carry is one type. We'll hopefully get that insurance Very
Soon Now. David appears to be on top of that with regard to finding
quotes, etc. The board of directors insurance is another type. David
previously researched this and it hasn't been acquired because we're not
a legal entity.

I think it's clear to me that just having Noisebridge on the lease
doesn't get rid of any liability. If we have full insurance and
Noisebridge is on the lease, it still doesn't get rid of _all_ of the
legal liability. The insurance simply covers us up to N dollars of that
risk. Hopefully N is greater than we'll ever need!

Currently you're attempting to block giving out keys entirely with no
recourse. I find this to be really unfair. We should be able to reach a
reasonable middle ground with trustworthy people.

Are you suggesting that we do not give out _any_ keys until we:
    Are a legal 501c3?
    ... And have both types of insurance?

Can we find a middle ground for some of the members who we fully trust
and who are entirely a part of this? Please?

Best,
Jake


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