[Cyborg] HRV tray app

Dave Asprey david at asprey.net
Mon Oct 11 23:46:28 PDT 2010


Hi everyone,

The best HRV tray app I have seen is from www.heartwizard.com but it uses a finger or ear sensor. I saw a Bluetooth ear sensor not so long ago, but it wasn't commercialized. A very cool thing to play with, but the shipping hardware isn't pretty to say the least, and the software is clunky and has pictures of long-haired teens wearing 80's track suits.

I'm hoping the www.heartmathstore.com guys - who have better hardware by far, and better software too - will come out with a tray app for the Emwave PC version, which is a very powerful meditation/relaxation tool.

Thanks,
Dave
www.linkedin.com/in/asprey

"The goal of life is not to possess power, but to radiate it." - Henry Miller

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:59 PM
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Subject: Cyborg Digest, Vol 19, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: medical mirror (Eric Boyd)
   2. Re: Apparently Emotiv Epoc works with BCI2000 P300 Speller.
      (Jean Rintoul)
   3. Highly recommended events. (Jean Rintoul)
   4. Re: [EEG] Apparently Emotiv Epoc works with BCI2000 P300
      Speller. (Kelly)
   5. Re: [EEG] Apparently Emotiv Epoc works with BCI2000 P300
      Speller. (Jonathan Foote)
   6. Re: [EEG] Apparently Emotiv Epoc works with BCI2000 P300
      Speller. (Jean Rintoul)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 16:03:16 -0400
From: Eric Boyd <mrericboyd at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Cyborg] medical mirror
To: Tomm <tomm.fire at gmail.com>
Cc: cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net
Message-ID: <4CB36D84.5050103 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

My guess would be that they can't really get HRV.  It looks to me like their analysis system requires multiple beats just to get the heart-rate accurately (they do the equivalent of an FFT to get it). But given that they can get HR at all, I'm sure getting HRV is just a matter of time.
Might be hard with only 15Hz webcam though - if my calculations are right that limits intra-beat timings to +/-4BPM, yes?  Or could you calculate HRV over a big data set?!?

I am looking forward to having my new pulse-choker stuff (using polar heart rate receiver and a heart-shaped circuit I have designed), I'm totally gonna hack a logger into one of them and when I do so I'll share the data here :-).

Eric

On 10/9/10 6:03 PM, Tomm wrote:
> A tray app that monitors your heart rate is a great idea.  I wonder if
> the time resolution is good enough to measure heart rate variation
> (HRV)?  Variations in heartrate is also pretty interesting:
>
> "[...] asked 52 adults to report how often they experienced positive
> emotions like happiness, awe, and gratitude and how socially connected
> they felt in their social interactions every day for a period of nine
> weeks. The researchers also measured the HRV of each individual at the
> beginning and end of the study by measuring heart rate during a
> two-minute session of normal breathing. HRV at the beginning of the
> study predicted how quickly people developed positive feelings and
> experiences of social connectedness throughout the nine-week period.
> In addition, experiences of social connectedness predicted increases
> in HRV at the end of the study, demonstrating a reciprocal
> relationship between heart rate and having satisfying social experiences."
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-neuroscience-of-h
> eart
>
>       Tom
>
> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Eric Boyd <mrericboyd at yahoo.com
> <mailto:mrericboyd at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyWnvAWEbWE&feature=player_embedded
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyWnvAWEbWE&feature=player_embedded>
>
>     Basically, using nothing other than a webcam (1.3MP, 15 Hz!), they can
>     read your heart rate.  Then they built that into a "medical mirror", so
>     you can see your heart beat in the morning when you brush your
> teeth :-)
>
>     I found one of his papers about it online, full text:
>
>     Non-contact, automated cardiac pulse measurements using video imaging
>     and blind source separation
>     http://www.opticsinfobase.org/abstract.cfm?URI=oe-18-10-10762
>
>     Looks to me like the big breakthrough here is the motion independence,
>     which they got through a combination of face recognition and cropping
>     and separating the video into it's three component colors.  They claim
>     an average error from the reference pulseox reading of less than 1 BPM
>     even with movement, that's pretty impressive.
>
>     Anyone want to write a laptop app which would just keep the webcam on
>     all the time and log your heartbeat?
>
>     Eric
>     _______________________________________________
>     Cyborg mailing list
>     Cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net <mailto:Cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net>
>     https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/cyborg
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:43:18 -0700
From: Jean Rintoul <jean.rintoul at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Cyborg] Apparently Emotiv Epoc works with BCI2000 P300
        Speller.
To: Todd Anderson <tanders at stanford.edu>
Cc: Noisebridge <cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net>,
        eeg at lists.noisebridge.net
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTin-cf2j4=YtnUSk8WQKrbCmOAayR_rMwt50xGte at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I dunno!
Encryption will be broken again soon. Pay $500 right now! is the correct answer. :P

Jean

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Todd Anderson <tanders at stanford.edu> wrote:

> I was going to say "I can't believe $300 doesn't cover the cost of the
> headset", but then I realized I was thinking in a consumer context and
> not a lab mindset (in a lab context, such a device must be $3,000 or
> so, if it was reliable).  Anyway, does this mean get on it quick if
> you want low-level data access, or will the encryption be broken again in the next version?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jean Rintoul <jean.rintoul at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> That is all.
>>
>> Hail!
>>
>> The Emokit hack sounds like it won't work in future Emotiv SDK
>> iterations, as they are currently losing money on the hardware, and
>> are only making money on the research licenses. Oh well. Such is
>> business. They need some big game company to pick up the product and
>> develop around it so they can sell lots or something.
>>
>> Jean
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cyborg mailing list
>> Cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/cyborg
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> http://www.octotod.net
>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:47:07 -0700
From: Jean Rintoul <jean.rintoul at gmail.com>
Subject: [Cyborg] Highly recommended events.
To: eeg at lists.noisebridge.net, Noisebridge
        <cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net>
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTi=MXDvAJ_5RS9ignwNDceYeA1OAkh2GDH_JjzMd at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hey there,
I ran into Tom on friday night and he mentioned that I should send an email.


Quantified Self meetups are fascinating - A++. I try to go whenever they are within biking distance. Last week's meet up at Autodesk was no exception.
http://www.quantifiedself.com/
http://www.meetup.com/quantifiedself/

Amongst other interesting start ups I found out about while I was there, I also found out about this talk on sunday which may interest people:
http://www.carboncopies.org/asim-experts-series-brain-machine-interfacing-current-work-and-future-directions-max-hodak

jean
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:28:26 -0700
From: Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Cyborg] [EEG] Apparently Emotiv Epoc works with BCI2000
        P300    Speller.
To: Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org>
Cc: cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net, eeg at lists.noisebridge.net
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTi=TeXLBq37rJGeFvAch3FyPg035M_XwK6ttji6X at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Incidentally all, there ARE better headsets on the verge of entering the consumer market. (I've seen them demo-ed in our lab, and Jean may have too)

I wouldn't really recommend investing any energy in the Emotiv EPOC.
It's not quality hardware.

-Kelly

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 15:15, Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org> wrote:
> Just a note that I lent the Emotiv headset I got from a friend to Kyle
> Machulis (qDot). He's a superb hacker and I can't wait to pick his
> brains (so to speak!). Looks like he's already got a Python library
> up!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/qdot76367/5069428178/\
> http://github.com/qdot/Emokit
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Jean Rintoul <jean.rintoul at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I dunno!
>> Encryption will be broken again soon. Pay $500 right now! is the
>> correct answer. :P
>>
>> Jean
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Todd Anderson <tanders at stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was going to say "I can't believe $300 doesn't cover the cost of
>>> the headset", but then I realized I was thinking in a consumer
>>> context and not a lab mindset (in a lab context, such a device must
>>> be $3,000 or so, if it was reliable). ?Anyway, does this mean get on
>>> it quick if you want low-level data access, or will the encryption be broken again in the next version?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jean Rintoul
>>> <jean.rintoul at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That is all.
>>>>
>>>> Hail!
>>>>
>>>> The Emokit hack sounds like it won't work in future Emotiv SDK
>>>> iterations, as they are currently losing money on the hardware, and
>>>> are only making money on the research licenses. Oh well. Such is
>>>> business. They need some big game company to pick up the product
>>>> and develop around it so they can sell lots or something.
>>>>
>>>> Jean
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Cyborg mailing list
>>>> Cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/cyborg
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.octotod.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> EEG mailing list
>> EEG at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/eeg
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> EEG mailing list
> EEG at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/eeg
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:15:19 -0700
From: Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org>
Subject: Re: [Cyborg] [EEG] Apparently Emotiv Epoc works with BCI2000
        P300    Speller.
To: cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net, eeg at lists.noisebridge.net
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTinahQzXpn1_8HATAnc0-Tu3dRDRouY7yErLfxae at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Just a note that I lent the Emotiv headset I got from a friend to Kyle Machulis (qDot). He's a superb hacker and I can't wait to pick his brains (so to speak!). Looks like he's already got a Python library up!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/qdot76367/5069428178/\
http://github.com/qdot/Emokit


On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Jean Rintoul <jean.rintoul at gmail.com> wrote:
> I dunno!
> Encryption will be broken again soon. Pay $500 right now! is the
> correct answer. :P
>
> Jean
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Todd Anderson <tanders at stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I was going to say "I can't believe $300 doesn't cover the cost of
>> the headset", but then I realized I was thinking in a consumer
>> context and not a lab mindset (in a lab context, such a device must
>> be $3,000 or so, if it was reliable). ?Anyway, does this mean get on
>> it quick if you want low-level data access, or will the encryption be broken again in the next version?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jean Rintoul <jean.rintoul at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That is all.
>>>
>>> Hail!
>>>
>>> The Emokit hack sounds like it won't work in future Emotiv SDK
>>> iterations, as they are currently losing money on the hardware, and
>>> are only making money on the research licenses. Oh well. Such is
>>> business. They need some big game company to pick up the product and
>>> develop around it so they can sell lots or something.
>>>
>>> Jean
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cyborg mailing list
>>> Cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/cyborg
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.octotod.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> EEG mailing list
> EEG at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/eeg
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 16:58:55 -0700
From: Jean Rintoul <jean.rintoul at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Cyborg] [EEG] Apparently Emotiv Epoc works with BCI2000
        P300    Speller.
To: Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
Cc: Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org>, cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net,
        eeg at lists.noisebridge.net
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTi=FNh09+w0SaeGydMWo_=U4ZR4WAN1HNy9xjG7d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

pfft! We should totally have a consumer EEG headset face off when we have one of each. Who can levitate the ball and run the P300 speller best? May the force be with you.

Neat regarding Kyle's python enquiries.

Looking forward to checking out the new headsets as I haven't seen anything other than a power point slideshow as yet, and I do think they have the potential to be better, and I hope they are.
I wonder what the retail price will be for these headsets?

For what it's worth, I'm not as impressed as I should be at the BioSemi hardware either, with their ribbons and bits breaking. That one costs orders of magnitude more than anything on or near the consumer market, and is the industry standard.

Jean

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:

> Incidentally all, there ARE better headsets on the verge of entering
> the consumer market. (I've seen them demo-ed in our lab, and Jean may
> have too)
>
> I wouldn't really recommend investing any energy in the Emotiv EPOC.
> It's not quality hardware.
>
> -Kelly
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 15:15, Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org> wrote:
> > Just a note that I lent the Emotiv headset I got from a friend to
> > Kyle Machulis (qDot). He's a superb hacker and I can't wait to pick
> > his brains (so to speak!). Looks like he's already got a Python
> > library up!
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/qdot76367/5069428178/\<http://www.flick
> > r.com/photos/qdot76367/5069428178/%5C>
> > http://github.com/qdot/Emokit
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Jean Rintoul
> > <jean.rintoul at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I dunno!
> >> Encryption will be broken again soon. Pay $500 right now! is the
> >> correct answer. :P
> >>
> >> Jean
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Todd Anderson
> >> <tanders at stanford.edu>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I was going to say "I can't believe $300 doesn't cover the cost of
> >>> the headset", but then I realized I was thinking in a consumer
> >>> context and
> not a
> >>> lab mindset (in a lab context, such a device must be $3,000 or so,
> >>> if
> it was
> >>> reliable).  Anyway, does this mean get on it quick if you want
> low-level
> >>> data access, or will the encryption be broken again in the next
> version?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jean Rintoul
> >>> <jean.rintoul at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> That is all.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hail!
> >>>>
> >>>> The Emokit hack sounds like it won't work in future Emotiv SDK
> >>>> iterations, as they are currently losing money on the hardware,
> >>>> and
> are only
> >>>> making money on the research licenses. Oh well. Such is business.
> >>>> They
> need
> >>>> some big game company to pick up the product and develop around
> >>>> it so
> they
> >>>> can sell lots or something.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jean
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Cyborg mailing list
> >>>> Cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/cyborg
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> http://www.octotod.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> EEG mailing list
> >> EEG at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/eeg
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > EEG mailing list
> > EEG at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/eeg
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Cyborg mailing list
> Cyborg at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/cyborg
>
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