[Neuro] tDCS at Noisebridge?

Justin Morrison me at justinmorrison.net
Fri Apr 19 04:46:11 UTC 2013


I'm curious about replicating results demonstrated by the FDA approved
Fisher Wallace Stimulator and similar devices.

http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-current

http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-published


Marketing speak FAQ from their website:

In 1991, our device received multiple 510(k) clearances that allow us to
> market the device for the treatment of depression, anxiety, insomnia and
> chronic pain.  Click HERE<http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=882.5800>to read the FDA definition of Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation on the FDA
> website.  Our technology should not be confused with Electroconvulsive
> Therapy (ECT) or Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS).
>
> Our device uses patented frequencies which are completely unique to our
> device.  Our device is also the only CES device on the market that is
> allowed to deliver electrical stimulation directly to the skull via sponge
> electrodes - all of our competitors are only allowed by the FDA to use
> ear-clip adaptors or skin patches, which many doctors believe are less
> efficient at delivering electricity to the brain. Ear clip devices can
> produce headaches and vertigo, especially in patients suffering from
> Meunier's Disease.
> Another major difference between our device and our competitors is that
> our device is manufactured in the USA and is used exclusively in research
> performed by the faculty of Harvard Medical School.
>

I suspect a DIY device could offer the same or better results for anxiety,
insomnia, depression, which would be my target symptoms. Perhaps I should
start a new thread to query this.

--
Justin Morrison
http://justinmorrison.net


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Andrew Stewart <andrewxstewart at gmail.com>wrote:

> Are you guys recording multichannel EEG alongside tDCS application?
>
> Sensible targeting hypotheses might be something like looking at
> activity of ICA EEG components before and after tDCS.  How ICs change
> with different stimulation protocols and stimulation electrode sites
> might be informative.
>
> I am really interested in what comes of testing this - and am also
> really intrigued by homebrew setups. Please report how this goes. And,
> uh, play safe.
>
> Andrew Stewart
>
> Sent from mobile - apologies for typos
>
> On 18 Apr 2013, at 05:28, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > To be honest, I kind of disapprove of aiming them or believing you are
> > aiming them. Like I said, uber-skeptic. I won't believe the aiming
> > stuff without an MRI and a head model for *your head* and then a lot
> > of math. And maybe not then.
> >
> > There are a lot of TDCS studies though so you can largely treat your
> > head as a black box, and this is perfectly acceptable science.
> > Anything that goes on inside the box is a hypothesis. There are some
> > solid results given specific parameter combinations, and I would
> > expect that you can replicate those, and maybe you can test some
> > hypotheses as well, so long as you're careful.
> >
> > I'm sure John will include safety parameters...
> >
> > -Kelly
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I meant the question in the general sense you point out.
> >>
> >> On Apr 17, 2013 6:25 PM, "Mike Schachter" <mschachter at eigenminds.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Out of curiosity - what effect are you trying to achieve? Wouldn't that
> >>> dictate where you "aim" it?
> >>>
> >>> mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Anthony Di Franco <
> di.franco at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> More to the point then, what's the best prior info right now on how to
> >>>> aim these things?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:34 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am way more skeptical of tdcs than the average tdcs hobbyist
> because I
> >>>>> basically do data analysis and modeling and almost no practical
> >>>>> applications, so I am trained to be overly critical and believe
> nothing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That said, you should probably make some notes about task structure
> and
> >>>>> timing, stimulation time, current direction, and the location and
> size of
> >>>>> both anode and cathode.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John is pretty good at being skeptical of the literature though, so I
> >>>>> expect he will have things to add or leave out per task. Those are
> the
> >>>>> basics I would want to see from a rough science perspective though.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 6:11 PM, "Anthony Di Franco" <di.franco at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I can appreciate both the idea that phrenology doesn't work and the
> >>>>>> idea that there is some amount of statistical consistency across
> populations
> >>>>>> in roughly what brain regions do what and how people respond to
> stimulation
> >>>>>> of various kinds in various regions.
> >>>>>> Where would you say the distinction relevant to playing with tdcs
> is,
> >>>>>> if you can? (So this can be part of the documentation being
> assembled, I
> >>>>>> hope.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:04 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'd just like to remind everyone that phrenology doesn't work,
> >>>>>>> regardless of what you put in your table. But a list of some basic
> regions
> >>>>>>> with citations would be an awesome start. It's probably worth
> making roughly
> >>>>>>> tabular even if some line items are wildly less dependable than
> others
> >>>>>>> because there are probably a few parameters that you care about
> for each
> >>>>>>> region.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> K
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 4:33 PM, "John Withers" <jwithers at reddagger.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 04/17/2013 01:10 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> A section on some hackerspace's wiki summarizing where to put
> what
> >>>>>>>>> kind of stimulation to accomplish what would be ideal.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I am actually working on that. It's part of a larger project
> >>>>>>>> and going to take me another few days to complete. But when I am
> done I will
> >>>>>>>> make sure there are links to it on the noisebridge wiki as well
> that of a
> >>>>>>>> couple of other spaces.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> j
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Neuro mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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