[Neuro] tDCS at Noisebridge?

Rohan Dixit rohan at brainbot.me
Fri Apr 19 23:22:56 UTC 2013


>>>That said, you should probably make some notes about task structure and
>>>timing, stimulation time, current direction, and the location and size of
>>>both anode and cathode.

Since we seem to have several devices, and perhaps different designs, I
think it'd be great to start systematically documenting this information.

I started a section on https://noisebridge.net/wiki/TDCS to keep track of
some of them, along with research results.

Would love to meet any and all tDCS hackers! Anthony and Sarah-- I'll PM
you!

Rohan





On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Justin Morrison <me at justinmorrison.net>wrote:

> I'm curious about replicating results demonstrated by the FDA approved
> Fisher Wallace Stimulator and similar devices.
>
> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-current
>
> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-published
>
>
> Marketing speak FAQ from their website:
>
> In 1991, our device received multiple 510(k) clearances that allow us to
>> market the device for the treatment of depression, anxiety, insomnia and
>> chronic pain.  Click HERE<http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=882.5800>to read the FDA definition of Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation on the FDA
>> website.  Our technology should not be confused with Electroconvulsive
>> Therapy (ECT) or Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS).
>>
>> Our device uses patented frequencies which are completely unique to our
>> device.  Our device is also the only CES device on the market that is
>> allowed to deliver electrical stimulation directly to the skull via sponge
>> electrodes - all of our competitors are only allowed by the FDA to use
>> ear-clip adaptors or skin patches, which many doctors believe are less
>> efficient at delivering electricity to the brain. Ear clip devices can
>> produce headaches and vertigo, especially in patients suffering from
>> Meunier's Disease.
>> Another major difference between our device and our competitors is that
>> our device is manufactured in the USA and is used exclusively in research
>> performed by the faculty of Harvard Medical School.
>>
>
> I suspect a DIY device could offer the same or better results for anxiety,
> insomnia, depression, which would be my target symptoms. Perhaps I should
> start a new thread to query this.
>
> --
> Justin Morrison
> http://justinmorrison.net
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Andrew Stewart <andrewxstewart at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Are you guys recording multichannel EEG alongside tDCS application?
>>
>> Sensible targeting hypotheses might be something like looking at
>> activity of ICA EEG components before and after tDCS.  How ICs change
>> with different stimulation protocols and stimulation electrode sites
>> might be informative.
>>
>> I am really interested in what comes of testing this - and am also
>> really intrigued by homebrew setups. Please report how this goes. And,
>> uh, play safe.
>>
>> Andrew Stewart
>>
>> Sent from mobile - apologies for typos
>>
>> On 18 Apr 2013, at 05:28, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > To be honest, I kind of disapprove of aiming them or believing you are
>> > aiming them. Like I said, uber-skeptic. I won't believe the aiming
>> > stuff without an MRI and a head model for *your head* and then a lot
>> > of math. And maybe not then.
>> >
>> > There are a lot of TDCS studies though so you can largely treat your
>> > head as a black box, and this is perfectly acceptable science.
>> > Anything that goes on inside the box is a hypothesis. There are some
>> > solid results given specific parameter combinations, and I would
>> > expect that you can replicate those, and maybe you can test some
>> > hypotheses as well, so long as you're careful.
>> >
>> > I'm sure John will include safety parameters...
>> >
>> > -Kelly
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> I meant the question in the general sense you point out.
>> >>
>> >> On Apr 17, 2013 6:25 PM, "Mike Schachter" <mschachter at eigenminds.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Out of curiosity - what effect are you trying to achieve? Wouldn't
>> that
>> >>> dictate where you "aim" it?
>> >>>
>> >>> mike
>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Anthony Di Franco <
>> di.franco at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> More to the point then, what's the best prior info right now on how
>> to
>> >>>> aim these things?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:34 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I am way more skeptical of tdcs than the average tdcs hobbyist
>> because I
>> >>>>> basically do data analysis and modeling and almost no practical
>> >>>>> applications, so I am trained to be overly critical and believe
>> nothing.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> That said, you should probably make some notes about task structure
>> and
>> >>>>> timing, stimulation time, current direction, and the location and
>> size of
>> >>>>> both anode and cathode.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> John is pretty good at being skeptical of the literature though, so
>> I
>> >>>>> expect he will have things to add or leave out per task. Those are
>> the
>> >>>>> basics I would want to see from a rough science perspective though.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 6:11 PM, "Anthony Di Franco" <di.franco at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I can appreciate both the idea that phrenology doesn't work and the
>> >>>>>> idea that there is some amount of statistical consistency across
>> populations
>> >>>>>> in roughly what brain regions do what and how people respond to
>> stimulation
>> >>>>>> of various kinds in various regions.
>> >>>>>> Where would you say the distinction relevant to playing with tdcs
>> is,
>> >>>>>> if you can? (So this can be part of the documentation being
>> assembled, I
>> >>>>>> hope.)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:04 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'd just like to remind everyone that phrenology doesn't work,
>> >>>>>>> regardless of what you put in your table. But a list of some
>> basic regions
>> >>>>>>> with citations would be an awesome start. It's probably worth
>> making roughly
>> >>>>>>> tabular even if some line items are wildly less dependable than
>> others
>> >>>>>>> because there are probably a few parameters that you care about
>> for each
>> >>>>>>> region.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> K
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 4:33 PM, "John Withers" <jwithers at reddagger.org>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 04/17/2013 01:10 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> A section on some hackerspace's wiki summarizing where to put
>> what
>> >>>>>>>>> kind of stimulation to accomplish what would be ideal.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I am actually working on that. It's part of a larger
>> project
>> >>>>>>>> and going to take me another few days to complete. But when I am
>> done I will
>> >>>>>>>> make sure there are links to it on the noisebridge wiki as well
>> that of a
>> >>>>>>>> couple of other spaces.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> j
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
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-- 
Rohan Dixit
www.brainbot.me
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