[Neuro] tDCS at Noisebridge?

Kelly hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com
Tue Apr 30 04:40:42 UTC 2013


Also, I want to buy something from this website on principle it is so
sketchy: http://www.elixa.com/CES/liss.htm

More better, given this: http://www.elixa.com/estim/NeuroTrek.htm I
bet we could get them to sell a noisebridge device.

Does anyone know how to look up a patent? I've only ever done it on
accident via google and that does not seem to be working. There's a
database right?

-K

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just have to say that "Our device uses patented frequencies which
> are completely unique to our device" is the best neuromarketing
> horseshit I've ever heard. I need to read their patent.
>
> -K
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Justin Morrison <me at justinmorrison.net> wrote:
>> I'm curious about replicating results demonstrated by the FDA approved
>> Fisher Wallace Stimulator and similar devices.
>>
>> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-current
>>
>> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-published
>>
>>
>> Marketing speak FAQ from their website:
>>
>>> In 1991, our device received multiple 510(k) clearances that allow us to
>>> market the device for the treatment of depression, anxiety, insomnia and
>>> chronic pain.  Click HERE to read the FDA definition of Cranial
>>> Electrotherapy Stimulation on the FDA website.  Our technology should not be
>>> confused with Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) or Transcranial Magnetic
>>> Stimulation (TMS).
>>>
>>> Our device uses patented frequencies which are completely unique to our
>>> device.  Our device is also the only CES device on the market that is
>>> allowed to deliver electrical stimulation directly to the skull via sponge
>>> electrodes - all of our competitors are only allowed by the FDA to use
>>> ear-clip adaptors or skin patches, which many doctors believe are less
>>> efficient at delivering electricity to the brain. Ear clip devices can
>>> produce headaches and vertigo, especially in patients suffering from
>>> Meunier's Disease.
>>>
>>> Another major difference between our device and our competitors is that
>>> our device is manufactured in the USA and is used exclusively in research
>>> performed by the faculty of Harvard Medical School.
>>
>>
>> I suspect a DIY device could offer the same or better results for anxiety,
>> insomnia, depression, which would be my target symptoms. Perhaps I should
>> start a new thread to query this.
>>
>> --
>> Justin Morrison
>> http://justinmorrison.net
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Andrew Stewart <andrewxstewart at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Are you guys recording multichannel EEG alongside tDCS application?
>>>
>>> Sensible targeting hypotheses might be something like looking at
>>> activity of ICA EEG components before and after tDCS.  How ICs change
>>> with different stimulation protocols and stimulation electrode sites
>>> might be informative.
>>>
>>> I am really interested in what comes of testing this - and am also
>>> really intrigued by homebrew setups. Please report how this goes. And,
>>> uh, play safe.
>>>
>>> Andrew Stewart
>>>
>>> Sent from mobile - apologies for typos
>>>
>>> On 18 Apr 2013, at 05:28, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > To be honest, I kind of disapprove of aiming them or believing you are
>>> > aiming them. Like I said, uber-skeptic. I won't believe the aiming
>>> > stuff without an MRI and a head model for *your head* and then a lot
>>> > of math. And maybe not then.
>>> >
>>> > There are a lot of TDCS studies though so you can largely treat your
>>> > head as a black box, and this is perfectly acceptable science.
>>> > Anything that goes on inside the box is a hypothesis. There are some
>>> > solid results given specific parameter combinations, and I would
>>> > expect that you can replicate those, and maybe you can test some
>>> > hypotheses as well, so long as you're careful.
>>> >
>>> > I'm sure John will include safety parameters...
>>> >
>>> > -Kelly
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> I meant the question in the general sense you point out.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 17, 2013 6:25 PM, "Mike Schachter" <mschachter at eigenminds.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Out of curiosity - what effect are you trying to achieve? Wouldn't
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> dictate where you "aim" it?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> mike
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Anthony Di Franco
>>> >>> <di.franco at gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> More to the point then, what's the best prior info right now on how
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> aim these things?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:34 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I am way more skeptical of tdcs than the average tdcs hobbyist
>>> >>>>> because I
>>> >>>>> basically do data analysis and modeling and almost no practical
>>> >>>>> applications, so I am trained to be overly critical and believe
>>> >>>>> nothing.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> That said, you should probably make some notes about task structure
>>> >>>>> and
>>> >>>>> timing, stimulation time, current direction, and the location and
>>> >>>>> size of
>>> >>>>> both anode and cathode.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> John is pretty good at being skeptical of the literature though, so
>>> >>>>> I
>>> >>>>> expect he will have things to add or leave out per task. Those are
>>> >>>>> the
>>> >>>>> basics I would want to see from a rough science perspective though.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 6:11 PM, "Anthony Di Franco" <di.franco at gmail.com>
>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I can appreciate both the idea that phrenology doesn't work and the
>>> >>>>>> idea that there is some amount of statistical consistency across
>>> >>>>>> populations
>>> >>>>>> in roughly what brain regions do what and how people respond to
>>> >>>>>> stimulation
>>> >>>>>> of various kinds in various regions.
>>> >>>>>> Where would you say the distinction relevant to playing with tdcs
>>> >>>>>> is,
>>> >>>>>> if you can? (So this can be part of the documentation being
>>> >>>>>> assembled, I
>>> >>>>>> hope.)
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:04 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I'd just like to remind everyone that phrenology doesn't work,
>>> >>>>>>> regardless of what you put in your table. But a list of some basic
>>> >>>>>>> regions
>>> >>>>>>> with citations would be an awesome start. It's probably worth
>>> >>>>>>> making roughly
>>> >>>>>>> tabular even if some line items are wildly less dependable than
>>> >>>>>>> others
>>> >>>>>>> because there are probably a few parameters that you care about
>>> >>>>>>> for each
>>> >>>>>>> region.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> K
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 4:33 PM, "John Withers" <jwithers at reddagger.org>
>>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On 04/17/2013 01:10 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> A section on some hackerspace's wiki summarizing where to put
>>> >>>>>>>>> what
>>> >>>>>>>>> kind of stimulation to accomplish what would be ideal.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I am actually working on that. It's part of a larger
>>> >>>>>>>> project
>>> >>>>>>>> and going to take me another few days to complete. But when I am
>>> >>>>>>>> done I will
>>> >>>>>>>> make sure there are links to it on the noisebridge wiki as well
>>> >>>>>>>> that of a
>>> >>>>>>>> couple of other spaces.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> j
>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>>>>> Neuro mailing list
>>> >>>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
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>>
>>


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