[Neuro] tDCS at Noisebridge?

Anthony Di Franco di.franco at gmail.com
Tue Apr 30 04:44:02 UTC 2013


I've had by far the most success with google patent search, send a number
and I'll have a go.
On Apr 29, 2013 9:41 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, I want to buy something from this website on principle it is so
> sketchy: http://www.elixa.com/CES/liss.htm
>
> More better, given this: http://www.elixa.com/estim/NeuroTrek.htm I
> bet we could get them to sell a noisebridge device.
>
> Does anyone know how to look up a patent? I've only ever done it on
> accident via google and that does not seem to be working. There's a
> database right?
>
> -K
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I just have to say that "Our device uses patented frequencies which
> > are completely unique to our device" is the best neuromarketing
> > horseshit I've ever heard. I need to read their patent.
> >
> > -K
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Justin Morrison <me at justinmorrison.net>
> wrote:
> >> I'm curious about replicating results demonstrated by the FDA approved
> >> Fisher Wallace Stimulator and similar devices.
> >>
> >> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-current
> >>
> >> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-published
> >>
> >>
> >> Marketing speak FAQ from their website:
> >>
> >>> In 1991, our device received multiple 510(k) clearances that allow us
> to
> >>> market the device for the treatment of depression, anxiety, insomnia
> and
> >>> chronic pain.  Click HERE to read the FDA definition of Cranial
> >>> Electrotherapy Stimulation on the FDA website.  Our technology should
> not be
> >>> confused with Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) or Transcranial Magnetic
> >>> Stimulation (TMS).
> >>>
> >>> Our device uses patented frequencies which are completely unique to our
> >>> device.  Our device is also the only CES device on the market that is
> >>> allowed to deliver electrical stimulation directly to the skull via
> sponge
> >>> electrodes - all of our competitors are only allowed by the FDA to use
> >>> ear-clip adaptors or skin patches, which many doctors believe are less
> >>> efficient at delivering electricity to the brain. Ear clip devices can
> >>> produce headaches and vertigo, especially in patients suffering from
> >>> Meunier's Disease.
> >>>
> >>> Another major difference between our device and our competitors is that
> >>> our device is manufactured in the USA and is used exclusively in
> research
> >>> performed by the faculty of Harvard Medical School.
> >>
> >>
> >> I suspect a DIY device could offer the same or better results for
> anxiety,
> >> insomnia, depression, which would be my target symptoms. Perhaps I
> should
> >> start a new thread to query this.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Justin Morrison
> >> http://justinmorrison.net
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Andrew Stewart <
> andrewxstewart at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Are you guys recording multichannel EEG alongside tDCS application?
> >>>
> >>> Sensible targeting hypotheses might be something like looking at
> >>> activity of ICA EEG components before and after tDCS.  How ICs change
> >>> with different stimulation protocols and stimulation electrode sites
> >>> might be informative.
> >>>
> >>> I am really interested in what comes of testing this - and am also
> >>> really intrigued by homebrew setups. Please report how this goes. And,
> >>> uh, play safe.
> >>>
> >>> Andrew Stewart
> >>>
> >>> Sent from mobile - apologies for typos
> >>>
> >>> On 18 Apr 2013, at 05:28, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > To be honest, I kind of disapprove of aiming them or believing you
> are
> >>> > aiming them. Like I said, uber-skeptic. I won't believe the aiming
> >>> > stuff without an MRI and a head model for *your head* and then a lot
> >>> > of math. And maybe not then.
> >>> >
> >>> > There are a lot of TDCS studies though so you can largely treat your
> >>> > head as a black box, and this is perfectly acceptable science.
> >>> > Anything that goes on inside the box is a hypothesis. There are some
> >>> > solid results given specific parameter combinations, and I would
> >>> > expect that you can replicate those, and maybe you can test some
> >>> > hypotheses as well, so long as you're careful.
> >>> >
> >>> > I'm sure John will include safety parameters...
> >>> >
> >>> > -Kelly
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Anthony Di Franco <
> di.franco at gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >> I meant the question in the general sense you point out.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Apr 17, 2013 6:25 PM, "Mike Schachter" <
> mschachter at eigenminds.com>
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Out of curiosity - what effect are you trying to achieve? Wouldn't
> >>> >>> that
> >>> >>> dictate where you "aim" it?
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> mike
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Anthony Di Franco
> >>> >>> <di.franco at gmail.com>
> >>> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> More to the point then, what's the best prior info right now on
> how
> >>> >>>> to
> >>> >>>> aim these things?
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:34 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> I am way more skeptical of tdcs than the average tdcs hobbyist
> >>> >>>>> because I
> >>> >>>>> basically do data analysis and modeling and almost no practical
> >>> >>>>> applications, so I am trained to be overly critical and believe
> >>> >>>>> nothing.
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> That said, you should probably make some notes about task
> structure
> >>> >>>>> and
> >>> >>>>> timing, stimulation time, current direction, and the location and
> >>> >>>>> size of
> >>> >>>>> both anode and cathode.
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> John is pretty good at being skeptical of the literature though,
> so
> >>> >>>>> I
> >>> >>>>> expect he will have things to add or leave out per task. Those
> are
> >>> >>>>> the
> >>> >>>>> basics I would want to see from a rough science perspective
> though.
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 6:11 PM, "Anthony Di Franco" <
> di.franco at gmail.com>
> >>> >>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> I can appreciate both the idea that phrenology doesn't work and
> the
> >>> >>>>>> idea that there is some amount of statistical consistency across
> >>> >>>>>> populations
> >>> >>>>>> in roughly what brain regions do what and how people respond to
> >>> >>>>>> stimulation
> >>> >>>>>> of various kinds in various regions.
> >>> >>>>>> Where would you say the distinction relevant to playing with
> tdcs
> >>> >>>>>> is,
> >>> >>>>>> if you can? (So this can be part of the documentation being
> >>> >>>>>> assembled, I
> >>> >>>>>> hope.)
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:04 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> I'd just like to remind everyone that phrenology doesn't work,
> >>> >>>>>>> regardless of what you put in your table. But a list of some
> basic
> >>> >>>>>>> regions
> >>> >>>>>>> with citations would be an awesome start. It's probably worth
> >>> >>>>>>> making roughly
> >>> >>>>>>> tabular even if some line items are wildly less dependable than
> >>> >>>>>>> others
> >>> >>>>>>> because there are probably a few parameters that you care about
> >>> >>>>>>> for each
> >>> >>>>>>> region.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> K
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 4:33 PM, "John Withers" <
> jwithers at reddagger.org>
> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> On 04/17/2013 01:10 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>> A section on some hackerspace's wiki summarizing where to put
> >>> >>>>>>>>> what
> >>> >>>>>>>>> kind of stimulation to accomplish what would be ideal.
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I am actually working on that. It's part of a larger
> >>> >>>>>>>> project
> >>> >>>>>>>> and going to take me another few days to complete. But when I
> am
> >>> >>>>>>>> done I will
> >>> >>>>>>>> make sure there are links to it on the noisebridge wiki as
> well
> >>> >>>>>>>> that of a
> >>> >>>>>>>> couple of other spaces.
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> j
> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>>>>>>> Neuro mailing list
> >>> >>>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> >>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>>>>>> Neuro mailing list
> >>> >>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> >>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
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> >>> >>
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> >>
>
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