[Neuro] tDCS at Noisebridge?

Anthony Di Franco di.franco at gmail.com
Tue Apr 30 04:52:29 UTC 2013


This one?
http://www.google.com/patents/US5109847?dq=%22fisher+wallace%22+stimulator&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0U1_UZeZH6G4igK4zIHgAQ&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAA
On Apr 29, 2013 9:49 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:

> I didn't see a number on the fisher wallace website...
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I've had by far the most success with google patent search, send a number
> > and I'll have a go.
> >
> > On Apr 29, 2013 9:41 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Also, I want to buy something from this website on principle it is so
> >> sketchy: http://www.elixa.com/CES/liss.htm
> >>
> >> More better, given this: http://www.elixa.com/estim/NeuroTrek.htm I
> >> bet we could get them to sell a noisebridge device.
> >>
> >> Does anyone know how to look up a patent? I've only ever done it on
> >> accident via google and that does not seem to be working. There's a
> >> database right?
> >>
> >> -K
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > I just have to say that "Our device uses patented frequencies which
> >> > are completely unique to our device" is the best neuromarketing
> >> > horseshit I've ever heard. I need to read their patent.
> >> >
> >> > -K
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Justin Morrison
> >> > <me at justinmorrison.net> wrote:
> >> >> I'm curious about replicating results demonstrated by the FDA
> approved
> >> >> Fisher Wallace Stimulator and similar devices.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-current
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-published
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Marketing speak FAQ from their website:
> >> >>
> >> >>> In 1991, our device received multiple 510(k) clearances that allow
> us
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> market the device for the treatment of depression, anxiety, insomnia
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> chronic pain.  Click HERE to read the FDA definition of Cranial
> >> >>> Electrotherapy Stimulation on the FDA website.  Our technology
> should
> >> >>> not be
> >> >>> confused with Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) or Transcranial
> Magnetic
> >> >>> Stimulation (TMS).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Our device uses patented frequencies which are completely unique to
> >> >>> our
> >> >>> device.  Our device is also the only CES device on the market that
> is
> >> >>> allowed to deliver electrical stimulation directly to the skull via
> >> >>> sponge
> >> >>> electrodes - all of our competitors are only allowed by the FDA to
> use
> >> >>> ear-clip adaptors or skin patches, which many doctors believe are
> less
> >> >>> efficient at delivering electricity to the brain. Ear clip devices
> can
> >> >>> produce headaches and vertigo, especially in patients suffering from
> >> >>> Meunier's Disease.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Another major difference between our device and our competitors is
> >> >>> that
> >> >>> our device is manufactured in the USA and is used exclusively in
> >> >>> research
> >> >>> performed by the faculty of Harvard Medical School.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I suspect a DIY device could offer the same or better results for
> >> >> anxiety,
> >> >> insomnia, depression, which would be my target symptoms. Perhaps I
> >> >> should
> >> >> start a new thread to query this.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Justin Morrison
> >> >> http://justinmorrison.net
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Andrew Stewart
> >> >> <andrewxstewart at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Are you guys recording multichannel EEG alongside tDCS application?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sensible targeting hypotheses might be something like looking at
> >> >>> activity of ICA EEG components before and after tDCS.  How ICs
> change
> >> >>> with different stimulation protocols and stimulation electrode sites
> >> >>> might be informative.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I am really interested in what comes of testing this - and am also
> >> >>> really intrigued by homebrew setups. Please report how this goes.
> And,
> >> >>> uh, play safe.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Andrew Stewart
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sent from mobile - apologies for typos
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 18 Apr 2013, at 05:28, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > To be honest, I kind of disapprove of aiming them or believing you
> >> >>> > are
> >> >>> > aiming them. Like I said, uber-skeptic. I won't believe the aiming
> >> >>> > stuff without an MRI and a head model for *your head* and then a
> lot
> >> >>> > of math. And maybe not then.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > There are a lot of TDCS studies though so you can largely treat
> your
> >> >>> > head as a black box, and this is perfectly acceptable science.
> >> >>> > Anything that goes on inside the box is a hypothesis. There are
> some
> >> >>> > solid results given specific parameter combinations, and I would
> >> >>> > expect that you can replicate those, and maybe you can test some
> >> >>> > hypotheses as well, so long as you're careful.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I'm sure John will include safety parameters...
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > -Kelly
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Anthony Di Franco
> >> >>> > <di.franco at gmail.com>
> >> >>> > wrote:
> >> >>> >> I meant the question in the general sense you point out.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> On Apr 17, 2013 6:25 PM, "Mike Schachter"
> >> >>> >> <mschachter at eigenminds.com>
> >> >>> >> wrote:
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> Out of curiosity - what effect are you trying to achieve?
> Wouldn't
> >> >>> >>> that
> >> >>> >>> dictate where you "aim" it?
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> mike
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Anthony Di Franco
> >> >>> >>> <di.franco at gmail.com>
> >> >>> >>> wrote:
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>> >>>> More to the point then, what's the best prior info right now on
> >> >>> >>>> how
> >> >>> >>>> to
> >> >>> >>>> aim these things?
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>> >>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:34 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
> >> >>> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>> >>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>> I am way more skeptical of tdcs than the average tdcs hobbyist
> >> >>> >>>>> because I
> >> >>> >>>>> basically do data analysis and modeling and almost no
> practical
> >> >>> >>>>> applications, so I am trained to be overly critical and
> believe
> >> >>> >>>>> nothing.
> >> >>> >>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>> That said, you should probably make some notes about task
> >> >>> >>>>> structure
> >> >>> >>>>> and
> >> >>> >>>>> timing, stimulation time, current direction, and the location
> >> >>> >>>>> and
> >> >>> >>>>> size of
> >> >>> >>>>> both anode and cathode.
> >> >>> >>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>> John is pretty good at being skeptical of the literature
> though,
> >> >>> >>>>> so
> >> >>> >>>>> I
> >> >>> >>>>> expect he will have things to add or leave out per task. Those
> >> >>> >>>>> are
> >> >>> >>>>> the
> >> >>> >>>>> basics I would want to see from a rough science perspective
> >> >>> >>>>> though.
> >> >>> >>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 6:11 PM, "Anthony Di Franco"
> >> >>> >>>>> <di.franco at gmail.com>
> >> >>> >>>>> wrote:
> >> >>> >>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>> I can appreciate both the idea that phrenology doesn't work
> and
> >> >>> >>>>>> the
> >> >>> >>>>>> idea that there is some amount of statistical consistency
> >> >>> >>>>>> across
> >> >>> >>>>>> populations
> >> >>> >>>>>> in roughly what brain regions do what and how people respond
> to
> >> >>> >>>>>> stimulation
> >> >>> >>>>>> of various kinds in various regions.
> >> >>> >>>>>> Where would you say the distinction relevant to playing with
> >> >>> >>>>>> tdcs
> >> >>> >>>>>> is,
> >> >>> >>>>>> if you can? (So this can be part of the documentation being
> >> >>> >>>>>> assembled, I
> >> >>> >>>>>> hope.)
> >> >>> >>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:04 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com
> >
> >> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>> >>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>> I'd just like to remind everyone that phrenology doesn't
> work,
> >> >>> >>>>>>> regardless of what you put in your table. But a list of some
> >> >>> >>>>>>> basic
> >> >>> >>>>>>> regions
> >> >>> >>>>>>> with citations would be an awesome start. It's probably
> worth
> >> >>> >>>>>>> making roughly
> >> >>> >>>>>>> tabular even if some line items are wildly less dependable
> >> >>> >>>>>>> than
> >> >>> >>>>>>> others
> >> >>> >>>>>>> because there are probably a few parameters that you care
> >> >>> >>>>>>> about
> >> >>> >>>>>>> for each
> >> >>> >>>>>>> region.
> >> >>> >>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>> K
> >> >>> >>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 4:33 PM, "John Withers"
> >> >>> >>>>>>> <jwithers at reddagger.org>
> >> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> On 04/17/2013 01:10 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> A section on some hackerspace's wiki summarizing where to
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> put
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> what
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> kind of stimulation to accomplish what would be ideal.
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I am actually working on that. It's part of a larger
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> project
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> and going to take me another few days to complete. But
> when I
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> am
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> done I will
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> make sure there are links to it on the noisebridge wiki as
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> well
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> that of a
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> couple of other spaces.
> >> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> j
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> Neuro mailing list
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>> >>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
> >> >>> >>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> >>>>>>> Neuro mailing list
> >> >>> >>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>> >>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> >>>> Neuro mailing list
> >> >>> >>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> >>> Neuro mailing list
> >> >>> >>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>> >> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
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> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > Neuro mailing list
> >> >>> > Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
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> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >>
>
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