[Noisebridge-discuss] 2169 Mission status
jim at well.com
Mon Jul 20 16:48:23 PDT 2009
my take is that you're overconcerned. concern is good.
please consider the following points wrt the "over" part.
the space as is is usable. the improvements we want
* possibly re-do the floors (about $1000 to $1500
assuming we do the labor), no permits are required.
the purpose is to sand the grime off the surface,
fill holes and cracks, and seal it to facilitate
reasonable cleaning of spills and other debris (and
to ensure such does not fall through to the second
floor and possibly cause damage and complicated
$1500 high side.
* minimal electrical involves replacing old and
defective receptacles and switches, possibly moving
or replacing a light fixture or two, removing or
replacing circuit breakers that are mismatched to
the wires they control. cost may be less than $100,
certainly less than $500. all of this is handyman work,
no permits are required.
$500 high side.
* an improved or new toilet room, possibly with a
shower, is a matter of framing, rocking, and painting
non-load bearing walls as well as extending water
and drain pipes, possibly purchasing a new toilet,
and possibly adding an on-demand water heater. wood,
rock, mud, paint will be about $300; door with frame
is about $200; pipes will be about $200; toilet is
about $300; sink with faucets are about $200;
on-demand water heater is a little under $1000; labor
will be on the order of $2000 to $3000.
a shower stall costs roughly $500, installation
requires water supply and drainage pipes with faucet,
mixer, and head, another $500. labor will be from
$1000 to $2000.
permits are required for pipe work, possibly for
walls and door.
our estimates of about $6000 seem realistic.
$8200 high side.
* where some have used the word "kitchen", there is
some agreement to purchase a used stainless steel
combination dual sink and counter unit. my
inexperienced guess is about $1000 (seems a little
high to me, do others know better?) for the unit.
labor is minimal: go get it, bring it in, screw it
down to the floor. do not use the word "kitchen".
it will require water supply and drainage pipes
to be joined to the existing plumbing in one of the
toilet rooms. labor should be under $1000. permits
are required for pipe work.
$2000 high side.
overall: $12200 high side.
The most critical part is to find a licensed plumber
who is available to do all the plumbing work within our
(reasonable) timeframe (could be in september or even
later as far as our needs go).
about me: my experience includes having worked as an
electrician and as a painter in san francisco, been an
apartment manager, lived in a community warehouse, owned
and renovated my own home in san francisco.
i've personally done just about all the work described
above (including framing, rocking, painting, installing
doors, finishing floors, removing and installing linoleum
flooring, electrical galore, installing sinks and toilets
to include faucets and both water supply and drainage
pipes. i have several years' work experience on job sites,
licensed and otherwise, and have pulled permits and passed
my weakest areas are tiling, roofing, and concrete
there are several other members of noisebridge who have
similar or more extensive experience than i.
as to blocking to force a detailed budget, do due
diligence yourself as to understanding what is a reasonable
budget. with the exception of one city in china built over
1000 years ago, there has been no plan or budget that has
proved entirely accurate. the greater the detail, the more
the variance from final reality.
my claim is that what i've detailed above is a
reasonable budget, possibly excepting my guess as to the
cost of the stainless steel combination dual sink and
counter. note that the estimates assume we do the labor
of floor finishing, electrical, and installing a sink
contraption (none of that work requires permits). note also
that much of the work described above can be deferred with
little adverse affect on our ability to use the space.
On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 14:41 -0700, Matt Peterson wrote:
> Ok, my big concern is the budget. I hate to come across as the party
> pooper here. It's well known that house remodels and upgrades run
> over budget, particularly for newbies in this realm - I could only
> imagine commercial refurbs requiring even more knowledge. Do we have
> members or friends with intimate knowledge of the permitting process,
> contractor negotiation, parts sourcing, etc (ideally ones willing to
> step up and lead this)? Sai had valid points in this realm at the
> last meeting, however the overall excitement overruled him repeatedly
> from diving into this.
> I plan to block unless a detailed budget is published and agreed
> upon. Our treasurer should be presenting data that shows our /
> existing/ membership base allows us to afford this space for some time
> PLUS additional surplus from the recent fundraising round. Let's get
> actual quotes from contractors. Hand waving and "just trust us" isn't
> going to fly.
> In terms of the funds earmarked for the new space, to what extent do
> we limit purchases and upgrades? I see the most critical items being:
> bathroom(s)/shower, electrical, walls, kitchen and other common shared
> infrastructure. These are meant to meet ADA, building code
> worthiness, general safety and comfort requirements. What happens
> when funds are spent, on say on a meat-only storage freezer, color
> photo processing equipment or an industrial CNC machines (all
> hypothetical examples) - yielding gear that isn't "new space"
> specific; are funders Ok with these type of purchases?
> Again, not trying to come off as the nay-sayer here but we're flying
> blind from what I can gather currently. I'm very excited about the
> new space itself, the breathing room we'll have and fun network
> upgrades that will follow. Let's just be up front and realistic about
> the costs.
> On Jul 19, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Andy Isaacson wrote:
> > The landlords apparently aren't interested in doing any work up-front,
> > so we'd be doing any work on our own dime and on our own time. We
> > requested that they replace the smaller (front) bathroom with a larger
> > bathroom (leaving the current rear bathroom in its current state) and
> > they declined.
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