[Noisebridge-discuss] Housekeeping history

Will Sargent will.sargent at gmail.com
Fri Jul 1 15:24:50 PDT 2011

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Rubin Abdi <rubin at starset.net> wrote:

> Will Sargent wrote, On 20110630 143724:
> > See, I think this "someone should step up and take responsibility" is
> part
> > of the problem.  No-one wants to get stuck with the "I clean Noisebridge"
> > job, and I can understand why.
> It's our space, part of participating in a space is we all clean it.
> That makes more sense to me then electing an official are paying someone
> to do the job.
> If you're looking for some place you don't need to clean up, might I
> suggest looking for a commercial work share space.
> Additionally if we get a facilities manager to deal with the space, why
> bother cleaning up after yourself? At work I don't wash my own dishes,
> the company I work for decided it's cheaper to hire somewhere else than
> for its employees to waste their (highly expensive) time on that sort of
> thing. I go to work to work and get paid for it.
> Noisebridge is a community, I go there to participate in it. I wouldn't
> see Noisebridge in the same light if we were paying someone to come in
> and clean up after ourselves. We're not getting paid to go there and
> work towards a business valued goal. It's our space and I think we
> should work towards making it hospitable to whatever point we want it to
> be.
> I like the idea that the current configuration, layout, where everything
> is of Noisebridge happened because someone random, member or not decided
> to make that happen. I like that I can show up and decide, "Well fuck
> these fucking doors they don't belong here anymore" and move them
> elsewhere without having to answer to someone who's getting paid to make
> sure everything little thing is exactly where it should be. It would
> feel like a very different place if someone got pissy at me for removing
> a door, not because they're a total asshole member, but because they're
> getting paid to be an asshole.
> No one single person should have to spearhead this effort, the whole
> community should. Considering the number of man hours wasted in this
> debating through our mailing list and at meetings, how much cleaner
> could have Noisebridge have gotten if we just had a single cleaning day
> every 2 or 3 weeks?
> Hell someone for a while had a cleaning thing setup at the end of every
> meeting, that worked great when people paid attention to that last
> agenda item.
> You're all smart, hack a solution together people, make Noisebridge your
> community.

I don't think that what you're saying is wrong.  If we'd had a single
cleaning day every two to three weeks instead of debating it, the place
would be cleaner.  But first you'd need to organize everyone, you'd need to
build awareness, you'd need to get everyone's scheduled aligned.  That can
take as much work as having a debate about it in the first place.

But then you'd have the same problem in a month's time.   And you'd have to
corrall everyone all over again -- that's effectively what you did while you
were facilities manager -- on an adhoc basis.  I think there's merit to
doing it that way, but during times when that doesn't happen, I think that a
cleaning service is also an acceptable solution.

You do bring up an interesting point about the feelings of ownership and
community though -- you could say if you want to be a member, you have to
sign up for a certain amount of "sign your name on the list saying you
cleaned this space," or show up for a cleaning day at the end of the month,
etc.  If cleaning is the responsibility of the community, then the people
who have stepped up to be members of that community should have that as a

Again, I think the space can be cleaner than it is, I'm not fussed about how
we get there, I don't have an ideological bag to hold.  I want something
that works.

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