[Noisebridge-discuss] Advisory about recent thefts at Noisebridge.

Rameen emprameen at gmail.com
Wed Jul 13 09:02:53 PDT 2011


I like these ideas.
Especially the idea of talking to people before they come in.

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 3:07 PM, VonGuard <vonguard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's an idea. When someone buzzes to get in, let's take a moment to use
> the speaker to talk to them remotely. Perhaps a simple password? Or maybe
> even having a camera on the entryway so we can see who's asking to come in,
> and we can post the banned persons images next to the buzzer.
>
> We could change the password every week or month, and post it on the wiki
> or list in a clever location. Homeless people would be unlikely to figure
> out where to find the passwords, and if we change it often enough, we could
> keep them confounded.
>
> Or, I dunno, ssh keys? Kinda hard to read and verify them over the
> intercom....
> On Jul 11, 2011 5:16 PM, "Ken Adler" <ken.adler at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Liz:
> >
> > The nuances in your detailed response reminds me of how much I love the
> > NoiseBridge community.
> >
> > I pray that the "root cause" of the current situation is what you posited
> > that it might be:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > I'm not sure, but it seems like part of what was going on that night
> > (and over the last few days) was that Philip looks for homeless people
> > in difficulty to take back to his place so that he can provide them
> > "therapy",
> > </snip>
> >
> >
> > I don't (think I) know Philip, but it sounds as his heart is in the right
> > place. Hopefully he can be approached and have your following paragraph
> > explained to him:
> >
> > <snip>
> > If people want to make Noisebridge into a community soup kitchen,
> > resource center, and squat, and invite people in off the street, that
> > will radically change the nature of the space and the problems it faces
> > and who wants to come here and why.
> > </snip>
> >
> >
> > I hope that he can understand that this activity fits into that fuzzy
> gray
> > area between "Do-ocracy" and an activity that needs "consensus". No foul
> > for accidentally stepping over the line as long as he respects the
> results
> > of a "call for consensus" arrived at the Tuesday meeting.
> >
> > If we are lucky enough that this is truly the root cause of the uptick,
> then
> > hopefully, we can mitigate the situation without having to go into
> lockdown
> > mode with video cameras, booby traps, and alligator pits. All we will
> need
> > to do is 1) stop having new "therapy patients" being introduced into the
> > space, 2) do whatever is needed to be done to make sure sure that those
> > "non-member former patients" know that they are not welcome and do not
> > attempt to enter anymore, and 3) pray that the "word on the street" that
> NB
> > is a great squat fades away.
> >
> > Yes, call me the eternal optimist.
> >
> > Ken "Max's Dad" Adler.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Liz Henry <liz at bookmaniac.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/9/11 9:31 AM, Quinn Norton wrote:
> >> > I'm confused. Did they actually do anything wrong besides make you
> >> uncomfortable?
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Good question and thanks for asking. I'll try to answer thoroughly,
> >> though it is a bit tl;dr. It was my personal judgment from fairly brief
> >> contact, and yet I had a fairly sharp worry about the person's being in
> >> Noisebridge. It's important to discuss in public how we might form that
> >> kind of judgment and expose our possibly wrong/biased standards for
> >> criticism.
> >>
> >> The guy I thought should not be allowed in wasn't the main guy who later
> >> that night got into the fight though I think he was involved. I was
> >> worried about leaving the space as he arrived, from my conversation with
> >> him and the drunk girl who brought him in. He was drunk or high and also
> >> seemed a bit incoherent, hard to understand, and out of touch with
> >> reality. He explained that people call him The Angel Gabriel and then
> >> began talking about the Bible. He refused a tour or explanation of the
> >> space. He was not particularly clean and was dressed in camo. I had a
> >> further snap reaction to him that was kind of like "Okay... you're a
> >> person who has been in prison... more than once." So a sketchy dude who
> >> on first sight I think has been in jail or prison, crazy, babbling about
> >> the Bible, drunk, etc.
> >>
> >> None of those things alone would lead me to be uncomfortable enough with
> >> a person to say "You should not come in and in fact you should leave"
> >> but all in combination, along with it being late at night when there
> >> were not many people in the building to keep an eye on the situation,
> >> and the drunk girl much younger than him who I didn't think had very
> >> good judgment, concerned me. What I said was not anything reasonable but
> >> was a huge eyeroll and sarcastic "Oh fuck... GREAT...." I came back
> >> with Danny after about an hour to make sure things were calm, and they
> >> seemed to be. So I did nothing and left. Not my finest moment.
> >>
> >> That afternoon I had just had encounters with several homeless and
> >> apparently mentally ill people in Noisebridge whose situations worried
> >> me, one of them Philip who could not manage to respect boundaries and
> >> who Danny escorted out. Another of them was the lady with white hair
> >> who is running for mayor and believes the FBI put her in SF General
> >> psych ward, erased her tape recorder, and is following her; she
> >> desperately asked me for help that I didn't know how to provide. So I
> >> also didn't say anything to The Angel Gabriel because I worried I was
> >> being overly uptight and freaked out from my earlier stressful
> encounters.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure, but it seems like part of what was going on that night
> >> (and over the last few days) was that Philip looks for homeless people
> >> in difficulty to take back to his place so that he can provide them
> >> "therapy", and kind of hangs out in other open or community spaces to do
> >> that, and has added NB to his list of hangouts. You might need to talk
> >> with Philip for a while yourself in order to decide whether you think
> >> that's a praiseworthy thing on his part or whether it is kind of
> >> disturbing.
> >>
> >> I think at NB we have many people who might be called non-neurotypical
> >> in various ways and we might all vary also in our level of comfort with
> >> that. So for example when someone has a bit of delusions of grandeur,
> >> fine and dandy as long as they aren't harming anyone. If they think the
> >> FBI reads their email because of their theories about economics, fine, a
> >> bit tin foil hat IMHO but also not doing much harm. I'm not talking
> >> about people who might be a little rambly or awkward or annoying. I
> >> guess it is when people seem really unpredictable, or predatory,
> >> incoherent, and plus are not already part of our community, then I
> >> think, why let them in the door at all?
> >>
> >> The bit about it being late at night and not many people in the space, I
> >> also have some worries that the very people who were left in the space
> >> who might be the ones who did not feel safe because of their own life
> >> situations and who have been turning to others in the space to ask them
> >> to behave as "authorities". During the day more people are around to
> >> decide together what to do. That's part of why in retrospect I wish I'd
> >> just asked The Angel Gabriel to leave immediately. He seemed like a risk
> >> that people there might not be able to cope with. So it was not just
> >> about my personal comfort level or some abstract idea of safe space or
> >> politeness or bourgeois respectability. I'm not sure what actually
> >> happened that night later on, but it sounds like there was a fight, the
> >> guy sleeping on the couch was forcibly ejected, and *then* the police
> >> were called.
> >>
> >> Something felt really "off" about the space and part of that is people
> >> not very strongly connected to NB and who don't know each other well
> >> either, letting each other in, late at night.
> >>
> >> I think there is also increasing class tension as more of the people
> >> coming in are completely homeless and lack many resources and lack a
> >> network of people who have access to those resources, while others of us
> >> are comparatively privileged, with marketable skills, shelter, food,
> >> jobs, emotional stability, and friends who have all of the above
> >> resources and more. Homeless not like "temporarily homeless hacker" but
> >> like "crazy person who has been on the streets for years and has just
> >> randomly showed up here." We have to figure out how to talk openly
> >> about those issues amongst ourselves without stigmatizing poverty,
> >> homelessness, or mental illness.
> >>
> >> Obviously I'm no expert in this.
> >>
> >> If people want to make Noisebridge into a community soup kitchen,
> >> resource center, and squat, and invite people in off the street, that
> >> will radically change the nature of the space and the problems it faces
> >> and who wants to come here and why.
> >>
> >> I don't want to do that, though I help people out individually in the
> >> community where I live.
> >>
> >> So I am not talking about Banning People but I think there is room in
> >> our community to speak as individuals to tell people "I'm uncomfortable
> >> with you because of X, Y, Z behavior" or "because I don't trust you not
> >> to steal stuff". That's what I'm going to say to people when I'm
> >> thinking it, in future. It will be interesting to see what answers I
> get.
> >>
> >> Other people can decide what approach they will take individually or
> >> collectively. I realize some may totally disagree with me that there is
> >> a problem. See what you think when you meet some of these folks.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - Liz
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Liz Henry
> >> lizhenry at gmail.com
> >> http://bookmaniac.org
> >> http://badgermama.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ken Adler
> > 510-290-5806 (cell)
> > Ken at adler.net
> > ----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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