[Noisebridge-discuss] Handy signs are handy.

Al Sweigart asweigart at gmail.com
Fri Jul 29 11:26:39 PDT 2011


I know that signs getting defaced or torn down is a data point, it's
just not a very helpful one. I have no clue who did it or why, so
there's no way I can talk to them and work out a change or compromise.
And if somebody is just defacing a sign instead of bringing it up with
people, they most likely don't _care_ to talk about it or compromise.
That's unexcellent behavior that we should change.

So to encourage people not taking the defacing route, I'm offering to
donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without
being defaced or torn down.

-Al

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>
>
>    Note Rachel's point that any tagging is a likely data
> point. I believe most tagging indicates something, however
> obscure.
>    I'd like to reiterate the idea of clearing an area
> around a posted sign and add the notion of having fewer
> signs and/or have signs deal with fewer topics.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:48 -0700, Christina Olson wrote:
>> Hey kids,
>>
>>
>> In my discussion with Liz and Danny about signs I did in fact touch
>> upon the points that 1. signs get removed or moved ALL THE DAMN TIME
>> and 2.  no one respects any signage due to the fact that they're not
>> clear, not consistent, and just printed paper taped to somewhere.
>>  We're working on a branded, systemic set of signs that will be
>> laminated and nailed/screwed to walls and other things so they cannot
>> be easily moved or disregarded.  If you'd like to be part of the sign
>> development effort please join the soceng mailing list, and speak to
>> Liz or myself.
>>
>>
>> The soceng meeting will be a day next week that is NOT tuesday, since
>> I can't ever make Tuesday anything due to a preexisting regular
>> commitment.  It will probably be Wednesday or Thursday, I haven't
>> decided yet.
>>
>>
>> PS:  Buying a laminator is hella crazy expensive, like several hundred
>> dollars for a shitty personal one and thousands for a good one (I've
>> already looked into this multiple times for other reasons, same thing
>> with paper cutters and binding machines), so unless someone is
>> donating one to the space, we are going to get them printed and
>> laminated elsewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>            Thanks lots, Al, for your work.
>>            Your offer of $1 a day seems to me to need some
>>         fine-tuning,
>>         mainly to specify particular signs, not just "the printed
>>         signs".
>>            As to tagging, seemingly snarky (gratuitous) additions may
>>         reflect some reasonable criticism, sometimes a matter of the
>>         background attitude that the wording and graphic effect of the
>>         sign presents.
>>            Maybe give some further thought to the design and wording
>>         of
>>         printed signs, including some aspect of printing that presents
>>         the sign as a finished graphic--while that presents a risk of
>>         doing extra work that gets trashed (i.e. tagged), a more
>>         polished
>>         finish may deter the more genuinely snarky changes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:30 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
>>         > The tagging I've seen haven't really been helpful commentary
>>         so much
>>         > as just passive aggressive snarky comments or the sign just
>>         gets torn
>>         > down. Either way, it doesn't really facilitate communication
>>         and
>>         > discourages people from putting up signs in the first place.
>>         It's not
>>         > like the wiki, where you can have a separate talk page and
>>         undoing
>>         > edits are trivial.
>>         >
>>         > Anyway, my offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar a day to
>>         > Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without being
>>         defaced or
>>         > torn down. I'll occasionally replace signs and start paying
>>         again if
>>         > they get tagged up.
>>         >
>>         > I'm up for meeting with Liz and Daravinne for brainstorming.
>>         There's a
>>         > wiki page up too: nburl.net/signage
>>         >
>>         > -Al
>>         >
>>         > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Danny O'Brien
>>         <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>         > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
>>         > > <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>         > >> I think if a sign gets removed or defaced it's often an
>>         excellent piece of
>>         > >> feedback from the community about the quality,
>>         intentions, or placement of
>>         > >> the sign.  Signs I've made have been removed. I try to be
>>         pragmatic about it
>>         > >> and take the fact of their removal to be something I can
>>         improve against.
>>         > >>
>>         > >> I think we need better signage for a lot of reasons...
>>         including exit
>>         > >> signs.  Anyone want to start a signage working group with
>>         me?
>>         > >>
>>         > >
>>         > > I think the best place for this would be on the social
>>         engineering list.
>>         > >
>>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/socialengineering
>>         > >
>>         > > Me, Liz and Daravinne can't make it to this week's tuesday
>>         meeting (or
>>         > > the social engineering meeting before it, so maybe meet up
>>         before then
>>         > > to brainstorm on it?)
>>         > >
>>         > > d.
>>         > >
>>         > >> mediumreality.com
>>         > >>
>>         > >> On Jul 29, 2011 10:02 AM, "Danny O&apos;Brien"
>>         <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>         > >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Al Sweigart
>>         <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>         > >>>> One of the efforts I want to do to make the space less
>>         intimidating to
>>         > >>>> new people is to improve the signage around the space
>>         to make it more
>>         > >>>> obvious what things are at NB, where those things are,
>>         and provide
>>         > >>>> answers for "what is this thing?" (protip: If the thing
>>         is glowing
>>         > >>>> and/or slimy, don't touch it.)
>>         > >>>>
>>         > >>>> A lot of the signs have been getting tagged up recently
>>         (if you have a
>>         > >>>> problem or suggestion with the wording, feel free to
>>         email me
>>         > >>>> privately or email the list), so to encourage
>>         preserving the signs,
>>         > >>>> I'm going to donate $1 each day the signs go without
>>         being defaced or
>>         > >>>> torn down. (If anyone can help with a part of that
>>         dollar, it'd be
>>         > >>>> great. $365 a year adds up.)
>>         > >>>>
>>         > >>>
>>         > >>> Hey Al, I think Daravinne and Liz are already working on
>>         improving the
>>         > >>> signing (as is somebody I don't know from taste bridge),
>>         you might
>>         > >>> want to work with them on this. There's some talk about
>>         getting a
>>         > >>> laminator as well.
>>         > >>>
>>         > >>> I think the "tagging" comes from a general encouragement
>>         in the last
>>         > >>> batch of signs to note changes or improvements, and I
>>         personally think
>>         > >>> it's a good way to get direct commentary; though in
>>         general I also
>>         > >>> think putting an email and contact on the signs is also
>>         good. Liz's
>>         > >>> kitchen signs got taken down specifically because
>>         someone is working
>>         > >>> on better versions of them, based on the written
>>         improvements. Our
>>         > >>> signs are generally just not very good or clear (or just
>>         > >>> overpowering), and I think requires more thought than
>>         simply
>>         > >>> attempting not to deface or remove ones that aren't
>>         working.
>>         > >>>
>>         > >>> d.
>>         > >>>
>>         > >>>
>>         > >>>
>>         > >>>> -Al
>>         > >>>>
>>         > >>>> p.s. I put fresh black and color cartridges in the
>>         white HP inkjet
>>         > >>>> printer, but print in color sparingly cause it's
>>         expensive (i.e.
>>         > >>>> overpriced by monopolistic bastards).
>>         > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>         > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>         > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>         > >>>>
>>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>         > >>>>
>>         > >>>>
>>         > >>> _______________________________________________
>>         > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>         > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>         > >>>
>>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>         > >>
>>         > >
>>         > _______________________________________________
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>>         >
>>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
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