[Noisebridge-discuss] Handy signs are handy.

jim jim at well.com
Fri Jul 29 12:50:09 PDT 2011



    I still think you should define "printed signs" more 
particularly. 


On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 11:26 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
> I know that signs getting defaced or torn down is a data point, it's
> just not a very helpful one. I have no clue who did it or why, so
> there's no way I can talk to them and work out a change or compromise.
> And if somebody is just defacing a sign instead of bringing it up with
> people, they most likely don't _care_ to talk about it or compromise.
> That's unexcellent behavior that we should change.
> 
> So to encourage people not taking the defacing route, I'm offering to
> donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without
> being defaced or torn down.
> 
> -Al
> 
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >    Note Rachel's point that any tagging is a likely data
> > point. I believe most tagging indicates something, however
> > obscure.
> >    I'd like to reiterate the idea of clearing an area
> > around a posted sign and add the notion of having fewer
> > signs and/or have signs deal with fewer topics.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:48 -0700, Christina Olson wrote:
> >> Hey kids,
> >>
> >>
> >> In my discussion with Liz and Danny about signs I did in fact touch
> >> upon the points that 1. signs get removed or moved ALL THE DAMN TIME
> >> and 2.  no one respects any signage due to the fact that they're not
> >> clear, not consistent, and just printed paper taped to somewhere.
> >>  We're working on a branded, systemic set of signs that will be
> >> laminated and nailed/screwed to walls and other things so they cannot
> >> be easily moved or disregarded.  If you'd like to be part of the sign
> >> development effort please join the soceng mailing list, and speak to
> >> Liz or myself.
> >>
> >>
> >> The soceng meeting will be a day next week that is NOT tuesday, since
> >> I can't ever make Tuesday anything due to a preexisting regular
> >> commitment.  It will probably be Wednesday or Thursday, I haven't
> >> decided yet.
> >>
> >>
> >> PS:  Buying a laminator is hella crazy expensive, like several hundred
> >> dollars for a shitty personal one and thousands for a good one (I've
> >> already looked into this multiple times for other reasons, same thing
> >> with paper cutters and binding machines), so unless someone is
> >> donating one to the space, we are going to get them printed and
> >> laminated elsewhere.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>            Thanks lots, Al, for your work.
> >>            Your offer of $1 a day seems to me to need some
> >>         fine-tuning,
> >>         mainly to specify particular signs, not just "the printed
> >>         signs".
> >>            As to tagging, seemingly snarky (gratuitous) additions may
> >>         reflect some reasonable criticism, sometimes a matter of the
> >>         background attitude that the wording and graphic effect of the
> >>         sign presents.
> >>            Maybe give some further thought to the design and wording
> >>         of
> >>         printed signs, including some aspect of printing that presents
> >>         the sign as a finished graphic--while that presents a risk of
> >>         doing extra work that gets trashed (i.e. tagged), a more
> >>         polished
> >>         finish may deter the more genuinely snarky changes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:30 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
> >>         > The tagging I've seen haven't really been helpful commentary
> >>         so much
> >>         > as just passive aggressive snarky comments or the sign just
> >>         gets torn
> >>         > down. Either way, it doesn't really facilitate communication
> >>         and
> >>         > discourages people from putting up signs in the first place.
> >>         It's not
> >>         > like the wiki, where you can have a separate talk page and
> >>         undoing
> >>         > edits are trivial.
> >>         >
> >>         > Anyway, my offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar a day to
> >>         > Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without being
> >>         defaced or
> >>         > torn down. I'll occasionally replace signs and start paying
> >>         again if
> >>         > they get tagged up.
> >>         >
> >>         > I'm up for meeting with Liz and Daravinne for brainstorming.
> >>         There's a
> >>         > wiki page up too: nburl.net/signage
> >>         >
> >>         > -Al
> >>         >
> >>         > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Danny O'Brien
> >>         <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> >>         > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
> >>         > > <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>         > >> I think if a sign gets removed or defaced it's often an
> >>         excellent piece of
> >>         > >> feedback from the community about the quality,
> >>         intentions, or placement of
> >>         > >> the sign.  Signs I've made have been removed. I try to be
> >>         pragmatic about it
> >>         > >> and take the fact of their removal to be something I can
> >>         improve against.
> >>         > >>
> >>         > >> I think we need better signage for a lot of reasons...
> >>         including exit
> >>         > >> signs.  Anyone want to start a signage working group with
> >>         me?
> >>         > >>
> >>         > >
> >>         > > I think the best place for this would be on the social
> >>         engineering list.
> >>         > >
> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/socialengineering
> >>         > >
> >>         > > Me, Liz and Daravinne can't make it to this week's tuesday
> >>         meeting (or
> >>         > > the social engineering meeting before it, so maybe meet up
> >>         before then
> >>         > > to brainstorm on it?)
> >>         > >
> >>         > > d.
> >>         > >
> >>         > >> mediumreality.com
> >>         > >>
> >>         > >> On Jul 29, 2011 10:02 AM, "Danny O&apos;Brien"
> >>         <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> >>         > >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Al Sweigart
> >>         <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>         > >>>> One of the efforts I want to do to make the space less
> >>         intimidating to
> >>         > >>>> new people is to improve the signage around the space
> >>         to make it more
> >>         > >>>> obvious what things are at NB, where those things are,
> >>         and provide
> >>         > >>>> answers for "what is this thing?" (protip: If the thing
> >>         is glowing
> >>         > >>>> and/or slimy, don't touch it.)
> >>         > >>>>
> >>         > >>>> A lot of the signs have been getting tagged up recently
> >>         (if you have a
> >>         > >>>> problem or suggestion with the wording, feel free to
> >>         email me
> >>         > >>>> privately or email the list), so to encourage
> >>         preserving the signs,
> >>         > >>>> I'm going to donate $1 each day the signs go without
> >>         being defaced or
> >>         > >>>> torn down. (If anyone can help with a part of that
> >>         dollar, it'd be
> >>         > >>>> great. $365 a year adds up.)
> >>         > >>>>
> >>         > >>>
> >>         > >>> Hey Al, I think Daravinne and Liz are already working on
> >>         improving the
> >>         > >>> signing (as is somebody I don't know from taste bridge),
> >>         you might
> >>         > >>> want to work with them on this. There's some talk about
> >>         getting a
> >>         > >>> laminator as well.
> >>         > >>>
> >>         > >>> I think the "tagging" comes from a general encouragement
> >>         in the last
> >>         > >>> batch of signs to note changes or improvements, and I
> >>         personally think
> >>         > >>> it's a good way to get direct commentary; though in
> >>         general I also
> >>         > >>> think putting an email and contact on the signs is also
> >>         good. Liz's
> >>         > >>> kitchen signs got taken down specifically because
> >>         someone is working
> >>         > >>> on better versions of them, based on the written
> >>         improvements. Our
> >>         > >>> signs are generally just not very good or clear (or just
> >>         > >>> overpowering), and I think requires more thought than
> >>         simply
> >>         > >>> attempting not to deface or remove ones that aren't
> >>         working.
> >>         > >>>
> >>         > >>> d.
> >>         > >>>
> >>         > >>>
> >>         > >>>
> >>         > >>>> -Al
> >>         > >>>>
> >>         > >>>> p.s. I put fresh black and color cartridges in the
> >>         white HP inkjet
> >>         > >>>> printer, but print in color sparingly cause it's
> >>         expensive (i.e.
> >>         > >>>> overpriced by monopolistic bastards).
> >>         > >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>         > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>         > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>         > >>>>
> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>         > >>>>
> >>         > >>>>
> >>         > >>> _______________________________________________
> >>         > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>         > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>         > >>>
> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>         > >>
> >>         > >
> >>         > _______________________________________________
> >>         > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>         > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>         >
> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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