[Noisebridge-discuss] Handy signs are handy.

Al Sweigart asweigart at gmail.com
Fri Jul 29 13:05:38 PDT 2011


It really doesn't matter. The instructional signs get defaced. The
policy-oriented signs get defaced (even the ones that have been
reworded after I talk with others about them.)

My offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day
the printed signs don't get defaced or torn down. That comes to almost
an extra starving-hacker rate membership.

-Al

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:50 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>
>    I still think you should define "printed signs" more
> particularly.
>
>
> On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 11:26 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
>> I know that signs getting defaced or torn down is a data point, it's
>> just not a very helpful one. I have no clue who did it or why, so
>> there's no way I can talk to them and work out a change or compromise.
>> And if somebody is just defacing a sign instead of bringing it up with
>> people, they most likely don't _care_ to talk about it or compromise.
>> That's unexcellent behavior that we should change.
>>
>> So to encourage people not taking the defacing route, I'm offering to
>> donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without
>> being defaced or torn down.
>>
>> -Al
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >    Note Rachel's point that any tagging is a likely data
>> > point. I believe most tagging indicates something, however
>> > obscure.
>> >    I'd like to reiterate the idea of clearing an area
>> > around a posted sign and add the notion of having fewer
>> > signs and/or have signs deal with fewer topics.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:48 -0700, Christina Olson wrote:
>> >> Hey kids,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In my discussion with Liz and Danny about signs I did in fact touch
>> >> upon the points that 1. signs get removed or moved ALL THE DAMN TIME
>> >> and 2.  no one respects any signage due to the fact that they're not
>> >> clear, not consistent, and just printed paper taped to somewhere.
>> >>  We're working on a branded, systemic set of signs that will be
>> >> laminated and nailed/screwed to walls and other things so they cannot
>> >> be easily moved or disregarded.  If you'd like to be part of the sign
>> >> development effort please join the soceng mailing list, and speak to
>> >> Liz or myself.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The soceng meeting will be a day next week that is NOT tuesday, since
>> >> I can't ever make Tuesday anything due to a preexisting regular
>> >> commitment.  It will probably be Wednesday or Thursday, I haven't
>> >> decided yet.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> PS:  Buying a laminator is hella crazy expensive, like several hundred
>> >> dollars for a shitty personal one and thousands for a good one (I've
>> >> already looked into this multiple times for other reasons, same thing
>> >> with paper cutters and binding machines), so unless someone is
>> >> donating one to the space, we are going to get them printed and
>> >> laminated elsewhere.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>            Thanks lots, Al, for your work.
>> >>            Your offer of $1 a day seems to me to need some
>> >>         fine-tuning,
>> >>         mainly to specify particular signs, not just "the printed
>> >>         signs".
>> >>            As to tagging, seemingly snarky (gratuitous) additions may
>> >>         reflect some reasonable criticism, sometimes a matter of the
>> >>         background attitude that the wording and graphic effect of the
>> >>         sign presents.
>> >>            Maybe give some further thought to the design and wording
>> >>         of
>> >>         printed signs, including some aspect of printing that presents
>> >>         the sign as a finished graphic--while that presents a risk of
>> >>         doing extra work that gets trashed (i.e. tagged), a more
>> >>         polished
>> >>         finish may deter the more genuinely snarky changes.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>         On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:30 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
>> >>         > The tagging I've seen haven't really been helpful commentary
>> >>         so much
>> >>         > as just passive aggressive snarky comments or the sign just
>> >>         gets torn
>> >>         > down. Either way, it doesn't really facilitate communication
>> >>         and
>> >>         > discourages people from putting up signs in the first place.
>> >>         It's not
>> >>         > like the wiki, where you can have a separate talk page and
>> >>         undoing
>> >>         > edits are trivial.
>> >>         >
>> >>         > Anyway, my offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar a day to
>> >>         > Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without being
>> >>         defaced or
>> >>         > torn down. I'll occasionally replace signs and start paying
>> >>         again if
>> >>         > they get tagged up.
>> >>         >
>> >>         > I'm up for meeting with Liz and Daravinne for brainstorming.
>> >>         There's a
>> >>         > wiki page up too: nburl.net/signage
>> >>         >
>> >>         > -Al
>> >>         >
>> >>         > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Danny O'Brien
>> >>         <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>> >>         > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
>> >>         > > <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>         > >> I think if a sign gets removed or defaced it's often an
>> >>         excellent piece of
>> >>         > >> feedback from the community about the quality,
>> >>         intentions, or placement of
>> >>         > >> the sign.  Signs I've made have been removed. I try to be
>> >>         pragmatic about it
>> >>         > >> and take the fact of their removal to be something I can
>> >>         improve against.
>> >>         > >>
>> >>         > >> I think we need better signage for a lot of reasons...
>> >>         including exit
>> >>         > >> signs.  Anyone want to start a signage working group with
>> >>         me?
>> >>         > >>
>> >>         > >
>> >>         > > I think the best place for this would be on the social
>> >>         engineering list.
>> >>         > >
>> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/socialengineering
>> >>         > >
>> >>         > > Me, Liz and Daravinne can't make it to this week's tuesday
>> >>         meeting (or
>> >>         > > the social engineering meeting before it, so maybe meet up
>> >>         before then
>> >>         > > to brainstorm on it?)
>> >>         > >
>> >>         > > d.
>> >>         > >
>> >>         > >> mediumreality.com
>> >>         > >>
>> >>         > >> On Jul 29, 2011 10:02 AM, "Danny O&apos;Brien"
>> >>         <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>> >>         > >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Al Sweigart
>> >>         <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>         > >>>> One of the efforts I want to do to make the space less
>> >>         intimidating to
>> >>         > >>>> new people is to improve the signage around the space
>> >>         to make it more
>> >>         > >>>> obvious what things are at NB, where those things are,
>> >>         and provide
>> >>         > >>>> answers for "what is this thing?" (protip: If the thing
>> >>         is glowing
>> >>         > >>>> and/or slimy, don't touch it.)
>> >>         > >>>>
>> >>         > >>>> A lot of the signs have been getting tagged up recently
>> >>         (if you have a
>> >>         > >>>> problem or suggestion with the wording, feel free to
>> >>         email me
>> >>         > >>>> privately or email the list), so to encourage
>> >>         preserving the signs,
>> >>         > >>>> I'm going to donate $1 each day the signs go without
>> >>         being defaced or
>> >>         > >>>> torn down. (If anyone can help with a part of that
>> >>         dollar, it'd be
>> >>         > >>>> great. $365 a year adds up.)
>> >>         > >>>>
>> >>         > >>>
>> >>         > >>> Hey Al, I think Daravinne and Liz are already working on
>> >>         improving the
>> >>         > >>> signing (as is somebody I don't know from taste bridge),
>> >>         you might
>> >>         > >>> want to work with them on this. There's some talk about
>> >>         getting a
>> >>         > >>> laminator as well.
>> >>         > >>>
>> >>         > >>> I think the "tagging" comes from a general encouragement
>> >>         in the last
>> >>         > >>> batch of signs to note changes or improvements, and I
>> >>         personally think
>> >>         > >>> it's a good way to get direct commentary; though in
>> >>         general I also
>> >>         > >>> think putting an email and contact on the signs is also
>> >>         good. Liz's
>> >>         > >>> kitchen signs got taken down specifically because
>> >>         someone is working
>> >>         > >>> on better versions of them, based on the written
>> >>         improvements. Our
>> >>         > >>> signs are generally just not very good or clear (or just
>> >>         > >>> overpowering), and I think requires more thought than
>> >>         simply
>> >>         > >>> attempting not to deface or remove ones that aren't
>> >>         working.
>> >>         > >>>
>> >>         > >>> d.
>> >>         > >>>
>> >>         > >>>
>> >>         > >>>
>> >>         > >>>> -Al
>> >>         > >>>>
>> >>         > >>>> p.s. I put fresh black and color cartridges in the
>> >>         white HP inkjet
>> >>         > >>>> printer, but print in color sparingly cause it's
>> >>         expensive (i.e.
>> >>         > >>>> overpriced by monopolistic bastards).
>> >>         > >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>         > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>         > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>         > >>>>
>> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>         > >>>>
>> >>         > >>>>
>> >>         > >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>         > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>         > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>         > >>>
>> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>         > >>
>> >>         > >
>> >>         > _______________________________________________
>> >>         > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>         > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>         >
>> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>         _______________________________________________
>> >>         Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
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>> >>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
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