[Noisebridge-discuss] Handy signs are handy.

Shannon Lee shannon at scatter.com
Fri Jul 29 13:41:27 PDT 2011


Yeah, well, I don't think signs do any good, period, I'm just suggesting
ways to prevent them from actually making the space a worse place to be.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:

> It really doesn't matter. The instructional signs get defaced. The
> policy-oriented signs get defaced (even the ones that have been
> reworded after I talk with others about them.)
>
> My offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day
> the printed signs don't get defaced or torn down. That comes to almost
> an extra starving-hacker rate membership.
>
> -Al
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:50 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >    I still think you should define "printed signs" more
> > particularly.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 11:26 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
> >> I know that signs getting defaced or torn down is a data point, it's
> >> just not a very helpful one. I have no clue who did it or why, so
> >> there's no way I can talk to them and work out a change or compromise.
> >> And if somebody is just defacing a sign instead of bringing it up with
> >> people, they most likely don't _care_ to talk about it or compromise.
> >> That's unexcellent behavior that we should change.
> >>
> >> So to encourage people not taking the defacing route, I'm offering to
> >> donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without
> >> being defaced or torn down.
> >>
> >> -Al
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >    Note Rachel's point that any tagging is a likely data
> >> > point. I believe most tagging indicates something, however
> >> > obscure.
> >> >    I'd like to reiterate the idea of clearing an area
> >> > around a posted sign and add the notion of having fewer
> >> > signs and/or have signs deal with fewer topics.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:48 -0700, Christina Olson wrote:
> >> >> Hey kids,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> In my discussion with Liz and Danny about signs I did in fact touch
> >> >> upon the points that 1. signs get removed or moved ALL THE DAMN TIME
> >> >> and 2.  no one respects any signage due to the fact that they're not
> >> >> clear, not consistent, and just printed paper taped to somewhere.
> >> >>  We're working on a branded, systemic set of signs that will be
> >> >> laminated and nailed/screwed to walls and other things so they cannot
> >> >> be easily moved or disregarded.  If you'd like to be part of the sign
> >> >> development effort please join the soceng mailing list, and speak to
> >> >> Liz or myself.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The soceng meeting will be a day next week that is NOT tuesday, since
> >> >> I can't ever make Tuesday anything due to a preexisting regular
> >> >> commitment.  It will probably be Wednesday or Thursday, I haven't
> >> >> decided yet.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> PS:  Buying a laminator is hella crazy expensive, like several
> hundred
> >> >> dollars for a shitty personal one and thousands for a good one (I've
> >> >> already looked into this multiple times for other reasons, same thing
> >> >> with paper cutters and binding machines), so unless someone is
> >> >> donating one to the space, we are going to get them printed and
> >> >> laminated elsewhere.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>            Thanks lots, Al, for your work.
> >> >>            Your offer of $1 a day seems to me to need some
> >> >>         fine-tuning,
> >> >>         mainly to specify particular signs, not just "the printed
> >> >>         signs".
> >> >>            As to tagging, seemingly snarky (gratuitous) additions may
> >> >>         reflect some reasonable criticism, sometimes a matter of the
> >> >>         background attitude that the wording and graphic effect of
> the
> >> >>         sign presents.
> >> >>            Maybe give some further thought to the design and wording
> >> >>         of
> >> >>         printed signs, including some aspect of printing that
> presents
> >> >>         the sign as a finished graphic--while that presents a risk of
> >> >>         doing extra work that gets trashed (i.e. tagged), a more
> >> >>         polished
> >> >>         finish may deter the more genuinely snarky changes.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>         On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:30 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
> >> >>         > The tagging I've seen haven't really been helpful
> commentary
> >> >>         so much
> >> >>         > as just passive aggressive snarky comments or the sign just
> >> >>         gets torn
> >> >>         > down. Either way, it doesn't really facilitate
> communication
> >> >>         and
> >> >>         > discourages people from putting up signs in the first
> place.
> >> >>         It's not
> >> >>         > like the wiki, where you can have a separate talk page and
> >> >>         undoing
> >> >>         > edits are trivial.
> >> >>         >
> >> >>         > Anyway, my offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar a day
> to
> >> >>         > Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without being
> >> >>         defaced or
> >> >>         > torn down. I'll occasionally replace signs and start paying
> >> >>         again if
> >> >>         > they get tagged up.
> >> >>         >
> >> >>         > I'm up for meeting with Liz and Daravinne for
> brainstorming.
> >> >>         There's a
> >> >>         > wiki page up too: nburl.net/signage
> >> >>         >
> >> >>         > -Al
> >> >>         >
> >> >>         > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Danny O'Brien
> >> >>         <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> >> >>         > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
> >> >>         > > <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>         > >> I think if a sign gets removed or defaced it's often an
> >> >>         excellent piece of
> >> >>         > >> feedback from the community about the quality,
> >> >>         intentions, or placement of
> >> >>         > >> the sign.  Signs I've made have been removed. I try to
> be
> >> >>         pragmatic about it
> >> >>         > >> and take the fact of their removal to be something I can
> >> >>         improve against.
> >> >>         > >>
> >> >>         > >> I think we need better signage for a lot of reasons...
> >> >>         including exit
> >> >>         > >> signs.  Anyone want to start a signage working group
> with
> >> >>         me?
> >> >>         > >>
> >> >>         > >
> >> >>         > > I think the best place for this would be on the social
> >> >>         engineering list.
> >> >>         > >
> >> >>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/socialengineering
> >> >>         > >
> >> >>         > > Me, Liz and Daravinne can't make it to this week's
> tuesday
> >> >>         meeting (or
> >> >>         > > the social engineering meeting before it, so maybe meet
> up
> >> >>         before then
> >> >>         > > to brainstorm on it?)
> >> >>         > >
> >> >>         > > d.
> >> >>         > >
> >> >>         > >> mediumreality.com
> >> >>         > >>
> >> >>         > >> On Jul 29, 2011 10:02 AM, "Danny O&apos;Brien"
> >> >>         <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> >> >>         > >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Al Sweigart
> >> >>         <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>         > >>>> One of the efforts I want to do to make the space less
> >> >>         intimidating to
> >> >>         > >>>> new people is to improve the signage around the space
> >> >>         to make it more
> >> >>         > >>>> obvious what things are at NB, where those things are,
> >> >>         and provide
> >> >>         > >>>> answers for "what is this thing?" (protip: If the
> thing
> >> >>         is glowing
> >> >>         > >>>> and/or slimy, don't touch it.)
> >> >>         > >>>>
> >> >>         > >>>> A lot of the signs have been getting tagged up
> recently
> >> >>         (if you have a
> >> >>         > >>>> problem or suggestion with the wording, feel free to
> >> >>         email me
> >> >>         > >>>> privately or email the list), so to encourage
> >> >>         preserving the signs,
> >> >>         > >>>> I'm going to donate $1 each day the signs go without
> >> >>         being defaced or
> >> >>         > >>>> torn down. (If anyone can help with a part of that
> >> >>         dollar, it'd be
> >> >>         > >>>> great. $365 a year adds up.)
> >> >>         > >>>>
> >> >>         > >>>
> >> >>         > >>> Hey Al, I think Daravinne and Liz are already working
> on
> >> >>         improving the
> >> >>         > >>> signing (as is somebody I don't know from taste
> bridge),
> >> >>         you might
> >> >>         > >>> want to work with them on this. There's some talk about
> >> >>         getting a
> >> >>         > >>> laminator as well.
> >> >>         > >>>
> >> >>         > >>> I think the "tagging" comes from a general
> encouragement
> >> >>         in the last
> >> >>         > >>> batch of signs to note changes or improvements, and I
> >> >>         personally think
> >> >>         > >>> it's a good way to get direct commentary; though in
> >> >>         general I also
> >> >>         > >>> think putting an email and contact on the signs is also
> >> >>         good. Liz's
> >> >>         > >>> kitchen signs got taken down specifically because
> >> >>         someone is working
> >> >>         > >>> on better versions of them, based on the written
> >> >>         improvements. Our
> >> >>         > >>> signs are generally just not very good or clear (or
> just
> >> >>         > >>> overpowering), and I think requires more thought than
> >> >>         simply
> >> >>         > >>> attempting not to deface or remove ones that aren't
> >> >>         working.
> >> >>         > >>>
> >> >>         > >>> d.
> >> >>         > >>>
> >> >>         > >>>
> >> >>         > >>>
> >> >>         > >>>> -Al
> >> >>         > >>>>
> >> >>         > >>>> p.s. I put fresh black and color cartridges in the
> >> >>         white HP inkjet
> >> >>         > >>>> printer, but print in color sparingly cause it's
> >> >>         expensive (i.e.
> >> >>         > >>>> overpriced by monopolistic bastards).
> >> >>         > >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>         > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>         > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>         > >>>>
> >> >>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>         > >>>>
> >> >>         > >>>>
> >> >>         > >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>         > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>         > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>         > >>>
> >> >>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>         > >>
> >> >>         > >
> >> >>         > _______________________________________________
> >> >>         > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>         > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>         >
> >> >>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>         _______________________________________________
> >> >>         Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>         Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
Shannon Lee
(503) 539-3700

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
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