[Noisebridge-discuss] Handy signs are handy.

Al Sweigart asweigart at gmail.com
Sat Jul 30 15:53:28 PDT 2011


http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/j49hg
On Jul 29, 2011 1:54 PM, "Christina Olson" <daravinne at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can appreciate wanting to buy a vinyl cutter, but I put it under the
same
> umbrella as buying a laminator: It's gonna put more delay between now and
> having signs up. Wide format printed two or three color
black-text-on-white
> signs run through a regular laminator will be quite readable and perfectly
> serviceable, and take far less time to set up, and making that happen
> doesn't actually depend on anyone but me and Liz.
>
>> One way to thread this needle is to focus on signs as labels instead of
> signs > as instructions or statements of policy. For example, a sign with
a
> diagram > of where the dishes go and a copy of Danny's "how to do dishes
>> programatically" flowchart might go over better than a big "DO NOT LEAVE
>
> DISHES IN THE SINK" and be more effective. Lowering barriers to doing the
>
> right thing is at least as effective a strategy as playing on free-form
> guilt.
>
> ^^^^ This is definitely what I had in mind. I would like to get people to
> feel good about following the directions in the signs, and engaged with
the
> process of keeping noisebridge in shape, and not feel alienated or ordered
> around.
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It really doesn't matter. The instructional signs get defaced. The
>> policy-oriented signs get defaced (even the ones that have been
>> reworded after I talk with others about them.)
>>
>> My offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day
>> the printed signs don't get defaced or torn down. That comes to almost
>> an extra starving-hacker rate membership.
>>
>> -Al
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:50 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I still think you should define "printed signs" more
>> > particularly.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 11:26 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
>> >> I know that signs getting defaced or torn down is a data point, it's
>> >> just not a very helpful one. I have no clue who did it or why, so
>> >> there's no way I can talk to them and work out a change or compromise.
>> >> And if somebody is just defacing a sign instead of bringing it up with
>> >> people, they most likely don't _care_ to talk about it or compromise.
>> >> That's unexcellent behavior that we should change.
>> >>
>> >> So to encourage people not taking the defacing route, I'm offering to
>> >> donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without
>> >> being defaced or torn down.
>> >>
>> >> -Al
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Note Rachel's point that any tagging is a likely data
>> >> > point. I believe most tagging indicates something, however
>> >> > obscure.
>> >> > I'd like to reiterate the idea of clearing an area
>> >> > around a posted sign and add the notion of having fewer
>> >> > signs and/or have signs deal with fewer topics.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:48 -0700, Christina Olson wrote:
>> >> >> Hey kids,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In my discussion with Liz and Danny about signs I did in fact touch
>> >> >> upon the points that 1. signs get removed or moved ALL THE DAMN
TIME
>> >> >> and 2. no one respects any signage due to the fact that they're not
>> >> >> clear, not consistent, and just printed paper taped to somewhere.
>> >> >> We're working on a branded, systemic set of signs that will be
>> >> >> laminated and nailed/screwed to walls and other things so they
cannot
>> >> >> be easily moved or disregarded. If you'd like to be part of the
sign
>> >> >> development effort please join the soceng mailing list, and speak
to
>> >> >> Liz or myself.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The soceng meeting will be a day next week that is NOT tuesday,
since
>> >> >> I can't ever make Tuesday anything due to a preexisting regular
>> >> >> commitment. It will probably be Wednesday or Thursday, I haven't
>> >> >> decided yet.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> PS: Buying a laminator is hella crazy expensive, like several
>> hundred
>> >> >> dollars for a shitty personal one and thousands for a good one
(I've
>> >> >> already looked into this multiple times for other reasons, same
thing
>> >> >> with paper cutters and binding machines), so unless someone is
>> >> >> donating one to the space, we are going to get them printed and
>> >> >> laminated elsewhere.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks lots, Al, for your work.
>> >> >> Your offer of $1 a day seems to me to need some
>> >> >> fine-tuning,
>> >> >> mainly to specify particular signs, not just "the printed
>> >> >> signs".
>> >> >> As to tagging, seemingly snarky (gratuitous) additions may
>> >> >> reflect some reasonable criticism, sometimes a matter of the
>> >> >> background attitude that the wording and graphic effect of
>> the
>> >> >> sign presents.
>> >> >> Maybe give some further thought to the design and wording
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> printed signs, including some aspect of printing that
>> presents
>> >> >> the sign as a finished graphic--while that presents a risk of
>> >> >> doing extra work that gets trashed (i.e. tagged), a more
>> >> >> polished
>> >> >> finish may deter the more genuinely snarky changes.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:30 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
>> >> >> > The tagging I've seen haven't really been helpful
>> commentary
>> >> >> so much
>> >> >> > as just passive aggressive snarky comments or the sign just
>> >> >> gets torn
>> >> >> > down. Either way, it doesn't really facilitate
>> communication
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> > discourages people from putting up signs in the first
>> place.
>> >> >> It's not
>> >> >> > like the wiki, where you can have a separate talk page and
>> >> >> undoing
>> >> >> > edits are trivial.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Anyway, my offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar a day
>> to
>> >> >> > Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without being
>> >> >> defaced or
>> >> >> > torn down. I'll occasionally replace signs and start paying
>> >> >> again if
>> >> >> > they get tagged up.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I'm up for meeting with Liz and Daravinne for
>> brainstorming.
>> >> >> There's a
>> >> >> > wiki page up too: nburl.net/signage
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > -Al
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Danny O'Brien
>> >> >> <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
>> >> >> > > <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > >> I think if a sign gets removed or defaced it's often an
>> >> >> excellent piece of
>> >> >> > >> feedback from the community about the quality,
>> >> >> intentions, or placement of
>> >> >> > >> the sign. Signs I've made have been removed. I try to
>> be
>> >> >> pragmatic about it
>> >> >> > >> and take the fact of their removal to be something I can
>> >> >> improve against.
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> I think we need better signage for a lot of reasons...
>> >> >> including exit
>> >> >> > >> signs. Anyone want to start a signage working group
>> with
>> >> >> me?
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > I think the best place for this would be on the social
>> >> >> engineering list.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/socialengineering
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Me, Liz and Daravinne can't make it to this week's
>> tuesday
>> >> >> meeting (or
>> >> >> > > the social engineering meeting before it, so maybe meet
>> up
>> >> >> before then
>> >> >> > > to brainstorm on it?)
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > d.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >> mediumreality.com
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> On Jul 29, 2011 10:02 AM, "Danny O&apos;Brien"
>> >> >> <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Al Sweigart
>> >> >> <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>> One of the efforts I want to do to make the space less
>> >> >> intimidating to
>> >> >> > >>>> new people is to improve the signage around the space
>> >> >> to make it more
>> >> >> > >>>> obvious what things are at NB, where those things are,
>> >> >> and provide
>> >> >> > >>>> answers for "what is this thing?" (protip: If the
>> thing
>> >> >> is glowing
>> >> >> > >>>> and/or slimy, don't touch it.)
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>> A lot of the signs have been getting tagged up
>> recently
>> >> >> (if you have a
>> >> >> > >>>> problem or suggestion with the wording, feel free to
>> >> >> email me
>> >> >> > >>>> privately or email the list), so to encourage
>> >> >> preserving the signs,
>> >> >> > >>>> I'm going to donate $1 each day the signs go without
>> >> >> being defaced or
>> >> >> > >>>> torn down. (If anyone can help with a part of that
>> >> >> dollar, it'd be
>> >> >> > >>>> great. $365 a year adds up.)
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> Hey Al, I think Daravinne and Liz are already working
>> on
>> >> >> improving the
>> >> >> > >>> signing (as is somebody I don't know from taste
>> bridge),
>> >> >> you might
>> >> >> > >>> want to work with them on this. There's some talk about
>> >> >> getting a
>> >> >> > >>> laminator as well.
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> I think the "tagging" comes from a general
>> encouragement
>> >> >> in the last
>> >> >> > >>> batch of signs to note changes or improvements, and I
>> >> >> personally think
>> >> >> > >>> it's a good way to get direct commentary; though in
>> >> >> general I also
>> >> >> > >>> think putting an email and contact on the signs is also
>> >> >> good. Liz's
>> >> >> > >>> kitchen signs got taken down specifically because
>> >> >> someone is working
>> >> >> > >>> on better versions of them, based on the written
>> >> >> improvements. Our
>> >> >> > >>> signs are generally just not very good or clear (or
>> just
>> >> >> > >>> overpowering), and I think requires more thought than
>> >> >> simply
>> >> >> > >>> attempting not to deface or remove ones that aren't
>> >> >> working.
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> d.
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>>> -Al
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>> p.s. I put fresh black and color cartridges in the
>> >> >> white HP inkjet
>> >> >> > >>>> printer, but print in color sparingly cause it's
>> >> >> expensive (i.e.
>> >> >> > >>>> overpriced by monopolistic bastards).
>> >> >> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
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