[Noisebridge-discuss] Handy signs are handy.

Danny O'Brien danny at spesh.com
Sun Jul 31 08:28:52 PDT 2011


Well, oh my days, I would never in a *million* years anticipated such
a thing to happen with such a sign!

d.


On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/j49hg
>
> On Jul 29, 2011 1:54 PM, "Christina Olson" <daravinne at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I can appreciate wanting to buy a vinyl cutter, but I put it under the
>> same
>> umbrella as buying a laminator: It's gonna put more delay between now and
>> having signs up. Wide format printed two or three color
>> black-text-on-white
>> signs run through a regular laminator will be quite readable and perfectly
>> serviceable, and take far less time to set up, and making that happen
>> doesn't actually depend on anyone but me and Liz.
>>
>>> One way to thread this needle is to focus on signs as labels instead of
>> signs > as instructions or statements of policy. For example, a sign with
>> a
>> diagram > of where the dishes go and a copy of Danny's "how to do dishes
>>> programatically" flowchart might go over better than a big "DO NOT LEAVE
>>> >
>> DISHES IN THE SINK" and be more effective. Lowering barriers to doing the
>> >
>> right thing is at least as effective a strategy as playing on free-form
>> guilt.
>>
>> ^^^^ This is definitely what I had in mind. I would like to get people to
>> feel good about following the directions in the signs, and engaged with
>> the
>> process of keeping noisebridge in shape, and not feel alienated or ordered
>> around.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It really doesn't matter. The instructional signs get defaced. The
>>> policy-oriented signs get defaced (even the ones that have been
>>> reworded after I talk with others about them.)
>>>
>>> My offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day
>>> the printed signs don't get defaced or torn down. That comes to almost
>>> an extra starving-hacker rate membership.
>>>
>>> -Al
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:50 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I still think you should define "printed signs" more
>>> > particularly.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 11:26 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
>>> >> I know that signs getting defaced or torn down is a data point, it's
>>> >> just not a very helpful one. I have no clue who did it or why, so
>>> >> there's no way I can talk to them and work out a change or compromise.
>>> >> And if somebody is just defacing a sign instead of bringing it up with
>>> >> people, they most likely don't _care_ to talk about it or compromise.
>>> >> That's unexcellent behavior that we should change.
>>> >>
>>> >> So to encourage people not taking the defacing route, I'm offering to
>>> >> donate a dollar to Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without
>>> >> being defaced or torn down.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Al
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Note Rachel's point that any tagging is a likely data
>>> >> > point. I believe most tagging indicates something, however
>>> >> > obscure.
>>> >> > I'd like to reiterate the idea of clearing an area
>>> >> > around a posted sign and add the notion of having fewer
>>> >> > signs and/or have signs deal with fewer topics.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:48 -0700, Christina Olson wrote:
>>> >> >> Hey kids,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> In my discussion with Liz and Danny about signs I did in fact touch
>>> >> >> upon the points that 1. signs get removed or moved ALL THE DAMN
>>> >> >> TIME
>>> >> >> and 2. no one respects any signage due to the fact that they're not
>>> >> >> clear, not consistent, and just printed paper taped to somewhere.
>>> >> >> We're working on a branded, systemic set of signs that will be
>>> >> >> laminated and nailed/screwed to walls and other things so they
>>> >> >> cannot
>>> >> >> be easily moved or disregarded. If you'd like to be part of the
>>> >> >> sign
>>> >> >> development effort please join the soceng mailing list, and speak
>>> >> >> to
>>> >> >> Liz or myself.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The soceng meeting will be a day next week that is NOT tuesday,
>>> >> >> since
>>> >> >> I can't ever make Tuesday anything due to a preexisting regular
>>> >> >> commitment. It will probably be Wednesday or Thursday, I haven't
>>> >> >> decided yet.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> PS: Buying a laminator is hella crazy expensive, like several
>>> hundred
>>> >> >> dollars for a shitty personal one and thousands for a good one
>>> >> >> (I've
>>> >> >> already looked into this multiple times for other reasons, same
>>> >> >> thing
>>> >> >> with paper cutters and binding machines), so unless someone is
>>> >> >> donating one to the space, we are going to get them printed and
>>> >> >> laminated elsewhere.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thanks lots, Al, for your work.
>>> >> >> Your offer of $1 a day seems to me to need some
>>> >> >> fine-tuning,
>>> >> >> mainly to specify particular signs, not just "the printed
>>> >> >> signs".
>>> >> >> As to tagging, seemingly snarky (gratuitous) additions may
>>> >> >> reflect some reasonable criticism, sometimes a matter of the
>>> >> >> background attitude that the wording and graphic effect of
>>> the
>>> >> >> sign presents.
>>> >> >> Maybe give some further thought to the design and wording
>>> >> >> of
>>> >> >> printed signs, including some aspect of printing that
>>> presents
>>> >> >> the sign as a finished graphic--while that presents a risk of
>>> >> >> doing extra work that gets trashed (i.e. tagged), a more
>>> >> >> polished
>>> >> >> finish may deter the more genuinely snarky changes.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 10:30 -0700, Al Sweigart wrote:
>>> >> >> > The tagging I've seen haven't really been helpful
>>> commentary
>>> >> >> so much
>>> >> >> > as just passive aggressive snarky comments or the sign just
>>> >> >> gets torn
>>> >> >> > down. Either way, it doesn't really facilitate
>>> communication
>>> >> >> and
>>> >> >> > discourages people from putting up signs in the first
>>> place.
>>> >> >> It's not
>>> >> >> > like the wiki, where you can have a separate talk page and
>>> >> >> undoing
>>> >> >> > edits are trivial.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Anyway, my offer still stands. I'll donate a dollar a day
>>> to
>>> >> >> > Noisebridge each day the printed signs go without being
>>> >> >> defaced or
>>> >> >> > torn down. I'll occasionally replace signs and start paying
>>> >> >> again if
>>> >> >> > they get tagged up.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I'm up for meeting with Liz and Daravinne for
>>> brainstorming.
>>> >> >> There's a
>>> >> >> > wiki page up too: nburl.net/signage
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > -Al
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Danny O'Brien
>>> >> >> <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
>>> >> >> > > <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> > >> I think if a sign gets removed or defaced it's often an
>>> >> >> excellent piece of
>>> >> >> > >> feedback from the community about the quality,
>>> >> >> intentions, or placement of
>>> >> >> > >> the sign. Signs I've made have been removed. I try to
>>> be
>>> >> >> pragmatic about it
>>> >> >> > >> and take the fact of their removal to be something I can
>>> >> >> improve against.
>>> >> >> > >>
>>> >> >> > >> I think we need better signage for a lot of reasons...
>>> >> >> including exit
>>> >> >> > >> signs. Anyone want to start a signage working group
>>> with
>>> >> >> me?
>>> >> >> > >>
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > I think the best place for this would be on the social
>>> >> >> engineering list.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >>
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/socialengineering
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > Me, Liz and Daravinne can't make it to this week's
>>> tuesday
>>> >> >> meeting (or
>>> >> >> > > the social engineering meeting before it, so maybe meet
>>> up
>>> >> >> before then
>>> >> >> > > to brainstorm on it?)
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > d.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > >> mediumreality.com
>>> >> >> > >>
>>> >> >> > >> On Jul 29, 2011 10:02 AM, "Danny O&apos;Brien"
>>> >> >> <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> > >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Al Sweigart
>>> >> >> <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> > >>>> One of the efforts I want to do to make the space less
>>> >> >> intimidating to
>>> >> >> > >>>> new people is to improve the signage around the space
>>> >> >> to make it more
>>> >> >> > >>>> obvious what things are at NB, where those things are,
>>> >> >> and provide
>>> >> >> > >>>> answers for "what is this thing?" (protip: If the
>>> thing
>>> >> >> is glowing
>>> >> >> > >>>> and/or slimy, don't touch it.)
>>> >> >> > >>>>
>>> >> >> > >>>> A lot of the signs have been getting tagged up
>>> recently
>>> >> >> (if you have a
>>> >> >> > >>>> problem or suggestion with the wording, feel free to
>>> >> >> email me
>>> >> >> > >>>> privately or email the list), so to encourage
>>> >> >> preserving the signs,
>>> >> >> > >>>> I'm going to donate $1 each day the signs go without
>>> >> >> being defaced or
>>> >> >> > >>>> torn down. (If anyone can help with a part of that
>>> >> >> dollar, it'd be
>>> >> >> > >>>> great. $365 a year adds up.)
>>> >> >> > >>>>
>>> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >> > >>> Hey Al, I think Daravinne and Liz are already working
>>> on
>>> >> >> improving the
>>> >> >> > >>> signing (as is somebody I don't know from taste
>>> bridge),
>>> >> >> you might
>>> >> >> > >>> want to work with them on this. There's some talk about
>>> >> >> getting a
>>> >> >> > >>> laminator as well.
>>> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >> > >>> I think the "tagging" comes from a general
>>> encouragement
>>> >> >> in the last
>>> >> >> > >>> batch of signs to note changes or improvements, and I
>>> >> >> personally think
>>> >> >> > >>> it's a good way to get direct commentary; though in
>>> >> >> general I also
>>> >> >> > >>> think putting an email and contact on the signs is also
>>> >> >> good. Liz's
>>> >> >> > >>> kitchen signs got taken down specifically because
>>> >> >> someone is working
>>> >> >> > >>> on better versions of them, based on the written
>>> >> >> improvements. Our
>>> >> >> > >>> signs are generally just not very good or clear (or
>>> just
>>> >> >> > >>> overpowering), and I think requires more thought than
>>> >> >> simply
>>> >> >> > >>> attempting not to deface or remove ones that aren't
>>> >> >> working.
>>> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >> > >>> d.
>>> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >> > >>>> -Al
>>> >> >> > >>>>
>>> >> >> > >>>> p.s. I put fresh black and color cartridges in the
>>> >> >> white HP inkjet
>>> >> >> > >>>> printer, but print in color sparingly cause it's
>>> >> >> expensive (i.e.
>>> >> >> > >>>> overpriced by monopolistic bastards).
>>> >> >> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> > >>>>
>>> >> >>
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >> > >>>>
>>> >> >> > >>>>
>>> >> >> > >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >>
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >> > >>
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >>
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>


More information about the Noisebridge-discuss mailing list