[Noisebridge-discuss] Please reach out

jim jim at systemateka.com
Sat Nov 19 19:08:59 PST 2011



    a quick search ("remedies for depression") was a bit 
depressing, but not too bad: 
* lots of recommendations for st johns wart 
* an unfortunate proscription against sugar 
* recommendations for omega 3 and vitamin B6, folic acid, 
magnesium... 

    a couple of the better pages, both with lots of links: 
* a pop page: 
http://altmedicine.about.com/od/healthconditionsatod/a/Depression1.htm 
* a little more serious: 
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/natural-remedies-for-depression/AN02087

    probably good to determine if one's depression is chronic 
or the result of some temporary stress. 
    a useful page (despite its first sentence "It's not known 
exactly what causes depression...."): 
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depression/DS00175/DSECTION=causes 

    definitely reaching out seems a good thing to do, but 
probably good to try to make the effort fun or informative, 
maybe reach out discriminatingly? 
    Find something to laugh about? Eeyore, one of the 
characters in the Winnie ther Pooh books, comes to mind..., 

    ...well, not to be a bore.... 




On Sat, 2011-11-19 at 18:24 -0800, jim wrote:
> i understand that depression, like diabetes and heart 
> disease and cancer, is widespread. mitch's email and JD's 
> and JE's responses brought up a feeling in me that somehow 
> the idea of reaching out is in itself insufficient. 
>     sure, my response is a criticism, but i don't mean to 
> carp, rather express my visceral reaction with a hope of 
> improving the message. 
>     i know there's a lot of good study on the subject, and 
> i bet it's possible to find or create a cogent summary of 
> a list of things a person can do that have a likelihood of 
> helping (e.g. get good sleep, change your immediate 
> surroundings, get some exercise like a walk, do something 
> that takes you out of your thoughts, try to discover what 
> you are subconsciously expecting that leads you to feel let 
> down or failed...)--a few good doorways to consider. 
> 
>     so far my contribution seems to me to fall short, but 
> the topic seems something akin to a hack possibility, some 
> prospect of discovering practical approaches that work. the 
> info about Dore Urgent Care seems useful, for example. 
>     i'll ask my shrinks. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2011-11-19 at 15:16 -0800, John Ellis wrote:
> > Hi Duncan and friends,
> > 
> > One thing I noted about Dore Urgent care is they generally do not put
> > people on a 5150 hold , even if they may meet the 5150 requirements.
> > The idea is you agree not to actually harm yourself, even if you have
> > suicidal ideation. This is different to some other centers in this
> > city. Their services do do not feel like a psych ward.
> > 
> > In case your wondering, yes I have dealt with major depression for a
> > long time. I'm doing okay at the moment. There is a constant pressure
> > to do more and to succeed, but I don't always feel motivated to do the
> > things that would mean success.
> > 
> > To re-iterate what others have said, If someone is experience major
> > depression or thoughts of suicide, tell someone. Reach out and someone
> > will help you, just ask.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > John
> > 
> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Just Duncan <justduncan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Very well written and thanks, Mitch.  I think for a lot of people, the
> > > question of reaching out is more one of simply not knowing how... especially
> > > without getting an awkward TMI response or more rejection... or to whom...
> > > without ending up in the psych ward when that's not warranted.
> > > Hackers aren't always the best at social skills, especially in times of
> > > need.
> > >
> > > On Nov 19, 2011, at 12:40 PM, Mitch Altman <maltman23 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > For folks who don't know, Ilya Zhitomirskiy, one of the founders of
> > > Diaspora, committed suicide recently.  He was 22 years old.
> > >
> > > Ilya hung out at Noisebridge, and also led workshops and hackathons for
> > > Diaspora at our space.  Most people who met him were quickly taken in by his
> > > enthusiasm and do-ocratic charisma.  I became instant friends with him the
> > > first day he showed up at Noisebridge shortly after he moved to San
> > > Francisco last year.
> > >
> > > Hardly anyone had even a clue that Ilya was depressed, let alone suicidal.
> > > He was bubbly, cheerful, excited about all the way cool projects he was
> > > implementing, as well as the ones he had thought, and would think of.
> > >
> > > Last night was his memorial in San Francisco, followed a party in his
> > > backyard in the Mission.  This party was typical of the epic parties Ilya
> > > threw in his backyard over the past many months, bringing together so many
> > > wonderful people -- incredible opportunities to have fun meeting and
> > > connecting with each other.  The only thing atypical last night was that
> > > Ilya was not there.
> > >
> > > Both the memorial and the party were full of people who knew and loved Ilya,
> > > and who Ilya knew and loved.  Ilya could have reached out to any one of us
> > > -- any time of day or night.  He could have reached out.  But he didn't.
> > >
> > > For Ilya to have held in and hid his pain so well that all of these people,
> > > including myself, had no clue -- Ilya must have felt *so* alone, *so*
> > > isolated, exacerbating his pain too greatly.  If he had reached out, maybe
> > > -- maybe -- he could have lived another day.  But he didn't.
> > >
> > > I lived the first half of my life in total and utter depression.  No joy,
> > > just shame, just self-loathing, dread and anxiety and fear of other people
> > > -- total depression.  I know what it is like to be depressed.  I know what
> > > it is like to live for one's whole life knowing and believing that the best
> > > life might have to offer is the ability for me to endure the pain till I
> > > eventually died.  That was the best possibility.  As with Ilya, I hid all of
> > > this from the world as best as I could.  And most people had no clue I was
> > > depressed.
> > >
> > > Yet, I learned, through making choices for myself, and learning from the
> > > consequences of my choices, and with help and support of others, over a
> > > period of many years, making more choices, learning, growing, crashing,
> > > burning, making more choices, more support. . . -- I eventually learned to
> > > live a life I love.  I love the life I live!  If I could learn to live a
> > > life I love, then, certainly, it is possible for anyone to do this!
> > >
> > > It is more than possible -- it is way worthwhile, way rewarding, way
> > > wonderful to go through the experiences of our life -- through the ups and
> > > the downs, through the all-arounds, and all the pain and suffering and joy
> > > and love and excitement -- and come to a place where you know that the pain,
> > > regardless of its intensity, is yet another (perhaps seemingly unendurable)
> > > experience, which gives way to more of what makes life even more worthwhile.
> > >
> > > Depression is an important part of life.  Everyone experiences it to some
> > > extent.  But to those of us who know chronic depression, it is our own
> > > unique hell.
> > >
> > > Unique as it is to each of us, we all share a lot.
> > >
> > > And we all have a lot to share with each other. Through the ups, and the
> > > downs, the all-arounds.
> > >
> > > For someone who has no experience reaching out, it can seem to be the
> > > scariest thing possible.  But it is possible.
> > >
> > > It is very possible.  Ilya is dead.  But you -- you are still alive.  If you
> > > are contemplating suicide, please know that you are not alone.  You are part
> > > of a community of others, many of whom know what it is like to be hopelessly
> > > depressed.  Many of whom are more than open for you to reach out to (if you
> > > only knew!).
> > >
> > > You *can* choose to kill yourself.  But it will be your last choice.  If you
> > > are ready to kill yourself, why not try out one choice first?  What do you
> > > have to lose?  I know it is scary, and perhaps way shameful, and maybe too
> > > awful, and extremely difficult -- but, really, what do you have to lose?
> > > Please know that you *can* choose to reach out to someone.  Please, know
> > > that you can.  Please, pick someone and reach out.
> > >
> > > Why wait till your pain is so unendurable?  You can reach out now.  (Really,
> > > you can.)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mitch.
> > >
> > >
> > > [I also posted this to the Noisebridge blog:
> > > http://blog.noisebridge.net/2011/11/19/please-reach-out/]
> > >
> > >
> > >
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