[Noisebridge-discuss] Please reach out

jim jim at well.com
Sat Nov 19 19:51:55 PST 2011



    one last reach (promise). 
    depression and anxiety are painful and sometimes hard 
to detect in others. this seems a really good set of web 
pages on suicide: 
http://www.medicinenet.com/suicide/article.htm 

    for me, the future seems a bleak prospect. i just heard 
a news show claim that people now can expect to live, on 
average, till age 90. this is bad news. 
    the commentator listed the features of our futures: 
increasing poverty--notably in the face of inflation, ill 
health, inability to afford or access medical goods and 
services, isolation, malnutrition, lack of mobility, 
bed-ridden at the mercies of a disgruntled male orderly.... 
    a kind of hack possibility that comes to mind is some 
kind of living environment with others, not a hospice or 
sick house, but a place that offers freedom at the price 
of absolutely minimal features, hopefully with a dirty 
workshop and a LAN. my favorite lifestyle has always been 
warehouse living. 



On Sat, 2011-11-19 at 19:08 -0800, jim wrote:
> 
>     a quick search ("remedies for depression") was a bit 
> depressing, but not too bad: 
> * lots of recommendations for st johns wart 
> * an unfortunate proscription against sugar 
> * recommendations for omega 3 and vitamin B6, folic acid, 
> magnesium... 
> 
>     a couple of the better pages, both with lots of links: 
> * a pop page: 
> http://altmedicine.about.com/od/healthconditionsatod/a/Depression1.htm 
> * a little more serious: 
> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/natural-remedies-for-depression/AN02087
> 
>     probably good to determine if one's depression is chronic 
> or the result of some temporary stress. 
>     a useful page (despite its first sentence "It's not known 
> exactly what causes depression...."): 
> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depression/DS00175/DSECTION=causes 
> 
>     definitely reaching out seems a good thing to do, but 
> probably good to try to make the effort fun or informative, 
> maybe reach out discriminatingly? 
>     Find something to laugh about? Eeyore, one of the 
> characters in the Winnie ther Pooh books, comes to mind..., 
> 
>     ...well, not to be a bore.... 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2011-11-19 at 18:24 -0800, jim wrote:
> > i understand that depression, like diabetes and heart 
> > disease and cancer, is widespread. mitch's email and JD's 
> > and JE's responses brought up a feeling in me that somehow 
> > the idea of reaching out is in itself insufficient. 
> >     sure, my response is a criticism, but i don't mean to 
> > carp, rather express my visceral reaction with a hope of 
> > improving the message. 
> >     i know there's a lot of good study on the subject, and 
> > i bet it's possible to find or create a cogent summary of 
> > a list of things a person can do that have a likelihood of 
> > helping (e.g. get good sleep, change your immediate 
> > surroundings, get some exercise like a walk, do something 
> > that takes you out of your thoughts, try to discover what 
> > you are subconsciously expecting that leads you to feel let 
> > down or failed...)--a few good doorways to consider. 
> > 
> >     so far my contribution seems to me to fall short, but 
> > the topic seems something akin to a hack possibility, some 
> > prospect of discovering practical approaches that work. the 
> > info about Dore Urgent Care seems useful, for example. 
> >     i'll ask my shrinks. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 2011-11-19 at 15:16 -0800, John Ellis wrote:
> > > Hi Duncan and friends,
> > > 
> > > One thing I noted about Dore Urgent care is they generally do not put
> > > people on a 5150 hold , even if they may meet the 5150 requirements.
> > > The idea is you agree not to actually harm yourself, even if you have
> > > suicidal ideation. This is different to some other centers in this
> > > city. Their services do do not feel like a psych ward.
> > > 
> > > In case your wondering, yes I have dealt with major depression for a
> > > long time. I'm doing okay at the moment. There is a constant pressure
> > > to do more and to succeed, but I don't always feel motivated to do the
> > > things that would mean success.
> > > 
> > > To re-iterate what others have said, If someone is experience major
> > > depression or thoughts of suicide, tell someone. Reach out and someone
> > > will help you, just ask.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > John
> > > 
> > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Just Duncan <justduncan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Very well written and thanks, Mitch.  I think for a lot of people, the
> > > > question of reaching out is more one of simply not knowing how... especially
> > > > without getting an awkward TMI response or more rejection... or to whom...
> > > > without ending up in the psych ward when that's not warranted.
> > > > Hackers aren't always the best at social skills, especially in times of
> > > > need.
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 19, 2011, at 12:40 PM, Mitch Altman <maltman23 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > For folks who don't know, Ilya Zhitomirskiy, one of the founders of
> > > > Diaspora, committed suicide recently.  He was 22 years old.
> > > >
> > > > Ilya hung out at Noisebridge, and also led workshops and hackathons for
> > > > Diaspora at our space.  Most people who met him were quickly taken in by his
> > > > enthusiasm and do-ocratic charisma.  I became instant friends with him the
> > > > first day he showed up at Noisebridge shortly after he moved to San
> > > > Francisco last year.
> > > >
> > > > Hardly anyone had even a clue that Ilya was depressed, let alone suicidal.
> > > > He was bubbly, cheerful, excited about all the way cool projects he was
> > > > implementing, as well as the ones he had thought, and would think of.
> > > >
> > > > Last night was his memorial in San Francisco, followed a party in his
> > > > backyard in the Mission.  This party was typical of the epic parties Ilya
> > > > threw in his backyard over the past many months, bringing together so many
> > > > wonderful people -- incredible opportunities to have fun meeting and
> > > > connecting with each other.  The only thing atypical last night was that
> > > > Ilya was not there.
> > > >
> > > > Both the memorial and the party were full of people who knew and loved Ilya,
> > > > and who Ilya knew and loved.  Ilya could have reached out to any one of us
> > > > -- any time of day or night.  He could have reached out.  But he didn't.
> > > >
> > > > For Ilya to have held in and hid his pain so well that all of these people,
> > > > including myself, had no clue -- Ilya must have felt *so* alone, *so*
> > > > isolated, exacerbating his pain too greatly.  If he had reached out, maybe
> > > > -- maybe -- he could have lived another day.  But he didn't.
> > > >
> > > > I lived the first half of my life in total and utter depression.  No joy,
> > > > just shame, just self-loathing, dread and anxiety and fear of other people
> > > > -- total depression.  I know what it is like to be depressed.  I know what
> > > > it is like to live for one's whole life knowing and believing that the best
> > > > life might have to offer is the ability for me to endure the pain till I
> > > > eventually died.  That was the best possibility.  As with Ilya, I hid all of
> > > > this from the world as best as I could.  And most people had no clue I was
> > > > depressed.
> > > >
> > > > Yet, I learned, through making choices for myself, and learning from the
> > > > consequences of my choices, and with help and support of others, over a
> > > > period of many years, making more choices, learning, growing, crashing,
> > > > burning, making more choices, more support. . . -- I eventually learned to
> > > > live a life I love.  I love the life I live!  If I could learn to live a
> > > > life I love, then, certainly, it is possible for anyone to do this!
> > > >
> > > > It is more than possible -- it is way worthwhile, way rewarding, way
> > > > wonderful to go through the experiences of our life -- through the ups and
> > > > the downs, through the all-arounds, and all the pain and suffering and joy
> > > > and love and excitement -- and come to a place where you know that the pain,
> > > > regardless of its intensity, is yet another (perhaps seemingly unendurable)
> > > > experience, which gives way to more of what makes life even more worthwhile.
> > > >
> > > > Depression is an important part of life.  Everyone experiences it to some
> > > > extent.  But to those of us who know chronic depression, it is our own
> > > > unique hell.
> > > >
> > > > Unique as it is to each of us, we all share a lot.
> > > >
> > > > And we all have a lot to share with each other. Through the ups, and the
> > > > downs, the all-arounds.
> > > >
> > > > For someone who has no experience reaching out, it can seem to be the
> > > > scariest thing possible.  But it is possible.
> > > >
> > > > It is very possible.  Ilya is dead.  But you -- you are still alive.  If you
> > > > are contemplating suicide, please know that you are not alone.  You are part
> > > > of a community of others, many of whom know what it is like to be hopelessly
> > > > depressed.  Many of whom are more than open for you to reach out to (if you
> > > > only knew!).
> > > >
> > > > You *can* choose to kill yourself.  But it will be your last choice.  If you
> > > > are ready to kill yourself, why not try out one choice first?  What do you
> > > > have to lose?  I know it is scary, and perhaps way shameful, and maybe too
> > > > awful, and extremely difficult -- but, really, what do you have to lose?
> > > > Please know that you *can* choose to reach out to someone.  Please, know
> > > > that you can.  Please, pick someone and reach out.
> > > >
> > > > Why wait till your pain is so unendurable?  You can reach out now.  (Really,
> > > > you can.)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Mitch.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [I also posted this to the Noisebridge blog:
> > > > http://blog.noisebridge.net/2011/11/19/please-reach-out/]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss




More information about the Noisebridge-discuss mailing list