[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6

the Bicycle Review thebicyclereview at gmail.com
Tue Sep 6 14:16:23 PDT 2011


Hi,

This is J. You know the "supposedly drunk belligerent guy". I never said I
was Schizophrenic. That is a lie. Duncan was the one who raised the idea of
Medication. I told him that I didn't take it because it made me suicidal,
and that many other friends I had who were creative had died that way. That
is what really happened. I am being targeted for no reason.

1- i am always friendly to Duncan, and to all members and others at
Noisebridge, keeping a low voice, playing music at low volume at night when
there are not too many people in the space, and using headphones in the day.
on the night in question my Business Partner and Friend rhea were making
T-shirts for our magazine. (Working on a project, playing Radiohead at a low
volume.) We did indeed drink...sharing a pint of whiskey and a six pack.
(which is not enough for two people to get so hammered that they don't know
what they are doing...besides, food and water was consumed throughout in the
interest of excellence and responsibility)

However...Duncan's assertion that all i do is drink and hang out at
Noisebridge, or that I am in any way belligerent is patently false. I am
friendly to everyone, until they are unfriendly to me, at which I may call
them out for being unexcellent. What do I do at Noisebridge?<goog_1550425862>

<goog_1550425862>
2- I work on my magazine
http://thebicyclereview.net<http://thebicyclereview.net>

3- i never...as in never once, have stayed overnight at noisebridge...ever.
Sometimes I may hang out there until the bars close, as I sometimes have to
sleep outside and don't want to get beat up by real drunk belligerent
people. in all cases I do my best (and succeed) to remain conscious. There
was one incident when I was new to Noisebridge (where I have been working
for nearly 2 months without any problems) where the person i was staying
with was assaulting me and I came in and lied down because I was overwhelmed
and had nowhere else to go. This was mainly an effort to defuse the
situation in my Hotel Room, not an attempt to stay overnight at noisebridge.
When asked to leave, i did so, as I did the other day when Joergen asked me
to.

4- I constantly donate Money, Goods, and labor to Noisebridge in the form of
food, coffee, cash, and kitchen and bathroom cleaning.

I have donated Coffee 10 times.

I have donated Curry Paste and Noodles to tastebridge, which I sometimes
participate quietly and respectfully in, in addition to regular donations of
food and making food for the entire community.

I am very poor, but when I can, I donate 1-5 $  to Noisebridge as a token of
my support.

If you add all this up, I am practically a paying member.

5- i wish to remind everyone that my primary source of income for my
Magazine is also donations. So, in effect, I am donating my own donations
back to Noisebridge in exchange for the use of the space.

6- On the darker side of things, I admit to having used Noisebridge as
somewhat of a storage space. I apologize. Being an artist raises storage
issues which my untimely poverty has made worse. I have just gone through a
bad break up, and do not have very steady income on my own. i am not a
Chronic Homeless Person, but I suppose you could call me at least
semi-homeless.

I apologize to noisebridge for my use of the space for storage. I have done
everything in my power to minimize its effects, especially after Miloh
alerted me to the fact that I was blocking Member Shelves. i fixed this,
removed some stuff, and no one has brought it up with me since.

7- Again, I admit to consuming Alcohol at noisebridge, which makes some
people uncomfortable, so perhaps that is another "dark side" of things to
them. But let me just state that I am not the only one. Both members and
non-members enjoy Alcoholic beverages in quantities similar to those in
which I at times indulge. i do not drink there every day, and use it mainly
as a workspace, mainly during the day. in fact, I do not usually hang out at
Noisebridge at night.

Duncan's assertions: 1)That i admitted I was Schizo. 2) That i spilled beer
on Kala's computer 3)That I am in any way belligerent are all lies. Anyone
who has observed me working quietly day after day in the space should be
able to infer this by my behavior. At times if I overhear someone making a
rude comment, I may say something. this, I contest, is in the spirit of
excellence, not against it.

I want to restate (and I do remember with perfect accuracy) Duncan spilled
that beer. I was next to him but not touching him, and I saw it. My beer was
in the sewing area, nowhere near the computer. I walked by and returned to
my T Shirt project, not wishing to interfere in the situation. We worked for
another O...hour or so...not much more, not much less. Then, on their way
out, cowardly and unexcellently, both Duncan and Kala (after, of course, i
had consumed more alcohol in anticipation of leaving Nb shortly after, and
was somewhat easier to provoke...which I feel is justified in the face of an
obvious lie, tho I threatened nothing and no one with anything, which shows
restraint not belligerence) Duncan accused me of spilling the beer. i denied
it. He then changed his story to say that I bumped him in passing...trying
to pass the buck, obviously. I again denied it. he persisted and eventually
I had no choice but to call him a liar, which I did.

We returned to our T-Shirt project.

Some time later, Alex approached me and informed me that he would call the
police if I did not leave. I stated that we had done nothing wrong, and that
the T-Shirts were almost done. he threatened the police again, and I said
that he could call them, but that by the time they got there we would be
gone, as the project would be completed. I reminded him that we were simply
working on a clothing project and I had donated money to the fund for my use
of certain items from the hack rack. He persisted in calling me unexcellent,
at which point I called him a liar and a fascist.

Let me make something perfectly clear: i use the word "fascist" in its'
traditional latin meaning and do not intend to imply any affiliation with
any political group. I feel, in most cases, it is better than saying "nazi"
"Dick" "shithead" "jerk", etc, as it actually has some meaning and context.
When I call someone a Fascist, it means that (at that time, the time when I
say it) they are attempting to have to much control over another's mind or
body.

We completed the T-Shirt project, and left.

8- In conclusion...sorry for all this explanation but i do feel it is
justified and necessary in this case. I thank you for reading this and alert
you to the fact that I will be appearing at the meeting tonight to present
this same case using this same document. As Duncan has made the mistake of
attempting to push this lie, I felt the need to respond. I have nothing but
this against him, have always treated him with respect, and ask only that he
do the same for me.

Thanks everyone for paying attention, and hopefully this will blow over. if
it was supposed to be a prank on me (for whatever reason) by Duncan and
Kala, it has definitely gone too far. My only wish is for a more excellent
community, and peace.

Sincerely,

J de Salvo


On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:00 PM, <
noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net> wrote:

> Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: email password cracked - what to do? (Lee Sonko)
>   2. Re: email password cracked - what to do? (Steve)
>   3. Re: email password cracked - what to do? (Seth David Schoen)
>   4. Re: Drunk,        Belligerent and Crazy - Nightime @ Noisebridge!
>      (Gavin Knight)
>   5. Re: Drunk,        Belligerent and Crazy - Nightime @ Noisebridge!
>      (Danny O'Brien)
>   6. Re: [091labs-private] Beginner Bring & Brew       Workshop
>      (Frantisek Apfelbeck)
>   7. Re: Drunk,        Belligerent and Crazy - Nightime @ Noisebridge!
>      (Chrysanthemum Hyphus)
>   8. Noisebridge must police itself (Jake)
>   9. Re: email password cracked - what to do? (Gian Pablo Villamil)
>  10. Re: email password cracked - what to do? (Will Sargent)
>  11. Re: email password cracked - what to do? (Just Duncan)
>  12. Re: email password cracked - what to do? (William Sargent)
>  13. desktop computer at welcome desk location (Jake)
>  14. bettermeans.com for governance (Sai)
>  15. Re: desktop computer at welcome desk location (jim)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org>
> To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:03:12 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] email password cracked - what to do?
> >Hacked accounts
>
> That is a dread situation. Sorry.
>
> Some advice on new passwords:
>
> http://lee.org/blog/2010/01/01/passwords-that-are-easy-to-remember-and-hard-to-guess/
> http://xkcd.com/936/
> If your current passwords are easy to guess across the board, change them
> ALL. Yes, this is a huge hassle. Next time make better passwords.
>
>
> Every site is going to require a different response:
> - If they hacked your bank website, call the bank and tell them the time
> period you were exposed. They'll look over your records to see what happened
> on the site
> - If they hacked your http://imgur.com/ site, see if they posted any
> embarrasing things in your name
> - If they hacked your Facebook account, look at the activity "you" had
> during the exposed period. Did "you" Friend anyone? Post anything? Change
> your permissions or allow any new applications???
> - If they hacked your Friendster account, WTF?
> - etc...
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:41 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi there!
>> Several email accounts (yahoo) of my friends were compromised in the last
>> few weeks probably due to the weak access passwords. I wonder if it is
>> enough to log in and set a new stronger password and make sure that the
>> internal info for access to different blogs, bank accounts etc which could
>> be among the emails is secured = passwords changed etc.
>>
>> Is this the right way to go?
>>
>> Is there something else to do?
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>>
>> Frantisek
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Steve <egeste at egeste.net>
> To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 08:22:55 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] email password cracked - what to do?
> * Change passwords for all services that use that email address, email
> first.
> * Use strong passwords. Attached is an infographic on the subject.
> * Check the outgoing mail.
> * Contact any banks associated with the account - they typically have a
> fraud prevention team that can offer advice.
>
> [image: Password Strength]
>
> On Sep 5, 2011, at 5:41 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:
>
> Hi there!
> Several email accounts (yahoo) of my friends were compromised in the last
> few weeks probably due to the weak access passwords. I wonder if it is
> enough to log in and set a new stronger password and make sure that the
> internal info for access to different blogs, bank accounts etc which could
> be among the emails is secured = passwords changed etc.
>
> Is this the right way to go?
>
> Is there something else to do?
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Frantisek
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
> Egesté
> egeste at egeste.net
> http://www.egeste.net/
> http://www.atxhackerspace.org/
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Seth David Schoen <schoen at loyalty.org>
> To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:19:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] email password cracked - what to do?
> Frantisek Apfelbeck writes:
>
> > Hi there!
> > Several email accounts (yahoo) of my friends were compromised in the last
> few weeks probably due to the weak access passwords. I wonder if it is
> enough to log in and set a new stronger password and make sure that the
> internal info for access to different blogs, bank accounts etc which could
> be among the emails is secured = passwords changed etc.
> >
> > Is this the right way to go?
> >
> > Is there something else to do?
>
> You might also want to consider whether there's some other way that
> the passwords were compromised, such as a software keylogger installed
> on one of the machines that they use to access these accounts.  And
> make sure that the software on the computers they use is being kept
> up-to-date.  Ideally, people should avoid typing sensitive
> information like passwords on computers whose security they can't
> guarantee (like most public computers).
>
> Google is now offering two-factor authentication (which they call
> "two-step verification") for Google accounts, if your friends would
> consider using Google instead of Yahoo and also accepting less
> convenience for greater security.  Or they can ask Yahoo to implement
> the same feature.
>
>
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/advanced-sign-in-security-for-your.html
>
> Two-factor authentication is a pretty good defense against keyloggers
> because the passwords that the keyloggers can capture won't be
> sufficient to log in to the service again later.
>
> --
> Seth David Schoen <schoen at loyalty.org>      |  No haiku patents
>     http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/        |  means I've no incentive to
>  FD9A6AA28193A9F03D4BF4ADC11B36DC9C7DD150  |        -- Don Marti
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gavin Knight <gnnrok at gmail.com>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:28:33 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Drunk, Belligerent and Crazy - Nightime
> @ Noisebridge!
> >From what I've learned.
>
> Stay calm, make sure you yourself are safe. Remember even though San
> Francisco is generally
> a fun and safe place there are sketchy people around. If you are confronted
> by someone take
> a few deep breaths, get yourself in a safe location. Relay your concern to
> others and try to
> know the others there.
>
> Lastly, if you feel strongly about something changing at noisebridge try
> and make it to the weekly
> meeting on Tuesdays at 8pm. Here you will find a forum to talk about the
> issue and seek resolution
> from those who've been around for a bit.
>
> Stay safe, and keep coming
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Kayla, I'm really sorry you had this experience. This has been an
>> ongoing problem (crazy people in the space) that is legitimately
>> challenging to deal with in Noisebridge's anarchic structure. I think
>> that it sounds like some helpful/constructive social structure (and a
>> phone tree!) are emerging out of this conflict, which I'm pretty
>> pleased by. But it sucks that you had to be part of the catalyzing
>> chaos.
>>
>> Is your laptop ok? I am not personally familiar with the survival of
>> macbooks post-beer-bath, but keep us posted on its convalescence.
>>
>> -Kelly
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 14:08,  <wild0811 at aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Last night at noisebridge a man known as to me as Jay was inebriated and
>> > spilled beer on to my $ 3000 15in Macbook Pro. I made the decision to
>> call
>> > the SFPD and file a report and have him removed from the space. I went
>> down
>> > stair with Ramon to flag down the cops. During this time Alex Peak,
>> Duncan
>> > and serval others attempted to verbally remove Jay from the space. He
>> > refused  to do so. Duncan and I felt that it was unsafe to have this
>> > individual remain in the space- as he fairly new and seem to come here
>> to
>> > drink and pass out. In addition all of the regulars were leaving for the
>> > night. As Alex and the others left, they spoke brief spoke with the
>> police
>> > and relayed that they did not feel it was necessary  for the police to
>> come
>> > upstairs and remove this individual, nor did the police want to come
>> > upstairs. When an intoxicate individual refuses to leave the community
>> does
>> > not have an effective way of dealing with the situation. Noisebridge is
>> a
>> > great space. I have been coming here since May and have used this space
>> to
>> > work, learn,  create and network.  Is it time to start The Ten Most
>> Unwanted
>> > Wall?
>> >
>> > Very concerned,
>> >
>> > Kayla
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
> To: Gavin Knight <gnnrok at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:03:53 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Drunk, Belligerent and Crazy - Nightime
> @ Noisebridge!
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Gavin Knight <gnnrok at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >From what I've learned.
>>
>> Stay calm, make sure you yourself are safe. Remember even though San
>> Francisco is generally
>> a fun and safe place there are sketchy people around. If you are
>> confronted by someone take
>> a few deep breaths, get yourself in a safe location. Relay your concern to
>> others and try to
>> know the others there.
>>
>>
> Kayla can't make Tuesday meetings, but I'm going to chat with her a bit
> about what happened, and we'll talk about this this week.
>
> d.
>
>
>
>> Lastly, if you feel strongly about something changing at noisebridge try
>> and make it to the weekly
>> meeting on Tuesdays at 8pm. Here you will find a forum to talk about the
>> issue and seek resolution
>> from those who've been around for a bit.
>>
>> Stay safe, and keep coming
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Kayla, I'm really sorry you had this experience. This has been an
>>> ongoing problem (crazy people in the space) that is legitimately
>>> challenging to deal with in Noisebridge's anarchic structure. I think
>>> that it sounds like some helpful/constructive social structure (and a
>>> phone tree!) are emerging out of this conflict, which I'm pretty
>>> pleased by. But it sucks that you had to be part of the catalyzing
>>> chaos.
>>>
>>> Is your laptop ok? I am not personally familiar with the survival of
>>> macbooks post-beer-bath, but keep us posted on its convalescence.
>>>
>>> -Kelly
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 14:08,  <wild0811 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Last night at noisebridge a man known as to me as Jay was inebriated
>>> and
>>> > spilled beer on to my $ 3000 15in Macbook Pro. I made the decision to
>>> call
>>> > the SFPD and file a report and have him removed from the space. I went
>>> down
>>> > stair with Ramon to flag down the cops. During this time Alex Peak,
>>> Duncan
>>> > and serval others attempted to verbally remove Jay from the space. He
>>> > refused  to do so. Duncan and I felt that it was unsafe to have this
>>> > individual remain in the space- as he fairly new and seem to come here
>>> to
>>> > drink and pass out. In addition all of the regulars were leaving for
>>> the
>>> > night. As Alex and the others left, they spoke brief spoke with the
>>> police
>>> > and relayed that they did not feel it was necessary  for the police to
>>> come
>>> > upstairs and remove this individual, nor did the police want to come
>>> > upstairs. When an intoxicate individual refuses to leave the community
>>> does
>>> > not have an effective way of dealing with the situation. Noisebridge is
>>> a
>>> > great space. I have been coming here since May and have used this space
>>> to
>>> > work, learn,  create and network.  Is it time to start The Ten Most
>>> Unwanted
>>> > Wall?
>>> >
>>> > Very concerned,
>>> >
>>> > Kayla
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> To: "091-food at googlegroups.com" <091-food at googlegroups.com>, Noisebridge <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 14:36:39 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] [091labs-private] Beginner Bring & Brew
> Workshop
> And you are right.
>
> Here is short info about the workshop, please edit it, correct it and if
> you can put the pictures kind of three in line or something like that ...
>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/091_Brew_Masters_workshop_5/9/2011
>
> Talk to you soon, time to go for bed (a pint I mean).
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Frantisek
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Oisin Greaney <ush at 091labs.com>
> *To:* 091-food at googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2011 10:27 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [091labs-private] Beginner Bring & Brew Workshop
>
> One could almost say that we "hacked" some airlocks.
> On Sep 5, 2011 9:32 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I'm just about updating the wiki page (which should be moved by some more
> knowledgeable person), we have made our own airlocks! :-))
> >
> > Frantisek
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Aaron Hastings <aaron at 091labs.com>
> > To: 091labs-private at googlegroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 8:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [091labs-private] Beginner Bring & Brew Workshop
> >
> > Did it go ahead in the end? Would have went in if it wasn't for the rain.
> >
> > Myself and Carles stopped in Home Brew West on the way home from Electric
> Picnic and bought airlocks. Woop.
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> > On 05/09/11 16:50, Richard Conroy wrote:
> >> Hi guys,
> >>    I need to know if there is a confirmed interest in running a brewing
> demo tonight.
> >>
> >> With the weather and the traffic the way it is, it will be a complete
> hassle for me to make it in, and I will need to do shopping and prep work in
> advance.
> >>
> >> Could people who are going to be confirmed for the workshop please let
> me know asap?
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Chrysanthemum Hyphus <cv at hyphusonline.com>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 15:15:16 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Drunk, Belligerent and Crazy - Nightime
> @ Noisebridge!
> How was this finally resolved? The story as related ends with a consensus
> between the police and members who went down to talk with them that there
> was no need to physically evict the person. Did this person just remain
> there, or what?
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Gavin Knight <gnnrok at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> >From what I've learned.
>>>
>>> Stay calm, make sure you yourself are safe. Remember even though San
>>> Francisco is generally
>>> a fun and safe place there are sketchy people around. If you are
>>> confronted by someone take
>>> a few deep breaths, get yourself in a safe location. Relay your concern
>>> to others and try to
>>> know the others there.
>>>
>>>
>> Kayla can't make Tuesday meetings, but I'm going to chat with her a bit
>> about what happened, and we'll talk about this this week.
>>
>> d.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Lastly, if you feel strongly about something changing at noisebridge try
>>> and make it to the weekly
>>> meeting on Tuesdays at 8pm. Here you will find a forum to talk about the
>>> issue and seek resolution
>>> from those who've been around for a bit.
>>>
>>> Stay safe, and keep coming
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kayla, I'm really sorry you had this experience. This has been an
>>>> ongoing problem (crazy people in the space) that is legitimately
>>>> challenging to deal with in Noisebridge's anarchic structure. I think
>>>> that it sounds like some helpful/constructive social structure (and a
>>>> phone tree!) are emerging out of this conflict, which I'm pretty
>>>> pleased by. But it sucks that you had to be part of the catalyzing
>>>> chaos.
>>>>
>>>> Is your laptop ok? I am not personally familiar with the survival of
>>>> macbooks post-beer-bath, but keep us posted on its convalescence.
>>>>
>>>> -Kelly
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 14:08,  <wild0811 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Last night at noisebridge a man known as to me as Jay was inebriated
>>>> and
>>>> > spilled beer on to my $ 3000 15in Macbook Pro. I made the decision to
>>>> call
>>>> > the SFPD and file a report and have him removed from the space. I went
>>>> down
>>>> > stair with Ramon to flag down the cops. During this time Alex Peak,
>>>> Duncan
>>>> > and serval others attempted to verbally remove Jay from the space. He
>>>> > refused  to do so. Duncan and I felt that it was unsafe to have this
>>>> > individual remain in the space- as he fairly new and seem to come here
>>>> to
>>>> > drink and pass out. In addition all of the regulars were leaving for
>>>> the
>>>> > night. As Alex and the others left, they spoke brief spoke with the
>>>> police
>>>> > and relayed that they did not feel it was necessary  for the police to
>>>> come
>>>> > upstairs and remove this individual, nor did the police want to come
>>>> > upstairs. When an intoxicate individual refuses to leave the community
>>>> does
>>>> > not have an effective way of dealing with the situation. Noisebridge
>>>> is a
>>>> > great space. I have been coming here since May and have used this
>>>> space to
>>>> > work, learn,  create and network.  Is it time to start The Ten Most
>>>> Unwanted
>>>> > Wall?
>>>> >
>>>> > Very concerned,
>>>> >
>>>> > Kayla
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 16:40:22 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge must police itself
> I have read the posts about Jay ruining Kaylas computer, after violating
> her space, and misusing noisebridge as a place to get drunk.
>
> I am appalled that after that happened, he was allowed to remain in the
> space.  If it had been only Kayla and her friend, and they chose to leave
> rather than forcing Jay to leave first, I would understand.
>
> Jay should have been immediately removed from the space.  If people who
> were at the space (including Alex) objected to allowing the police inside,
> it was then THEIR obligation to take care of business.  The fact that the
> police refused to come inside is besides the point.
>
> I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that Alex, Ramon, Rolf and Duncan could not
> remove Jay from the space.  The only explanation I can think of is that they
> were unwilling to get as physical as it would have been necessary to do so.
>
> A few months ago a thief came to noisebridge, around 7 or 8pm, and was
> spotted by Rayc taking his wallet.  A chase ensued and the thief tried to
> run out of noisebridge.  He was counting on people being unwilling to
> physically stop him, which I am SURE is the case 99.99% of the time.
>
> Instead he was physically stopped, football-style, and detained by the
> hands of at least three fully-involved people.  He was not allowed to leave
> before all his pockets were checked, and the smartphone belonging to a
> person who was at the space was recovered in this process.  We then allowed
> him to leave, perhaps because he had not used any violence other than
> relentless attempts to escape.
>
> Days later, a person having a mental breakdown was found in possession of
> (random) items not belonging to him and acting strange - and the police were
> called.  It might have been an overreaction but vigilance is the price of
> liberty.
>
> If Alex and others objected to the police coming inside, or objected to
> using their own force to eject this person, they should have remained at the
> space dealing with the problem until it was solved.  Options included
> outsmarting the crazy person, convincing them that the police would arrest
> them IF they refused to leave, or the good old fashioned rope trick.
>
> A friend of mine works in a low income clinic and says that when a person
> is being problematic and has to leave, all the workers stop what they're
> doing and stand shoulder to shoulder, forming a human wall that causes the
> person to move toward the exit.  This usually does the trick with no
> touching necessary.  It is important to remember that a person acting
> irrational may be able to be convinced that leaving is less scary than
> staying, and they will choose to do so forthwith.
>
> Either way, if we don't deal with problems like this when we have the
> opportunity, we forfeit and will become defined by them.
>
> In the future i feel that when (not if) this sort of thing happens, the
> offender needs to be immediately and directly removed from the space as soon
> as possible.
>
> -jake
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gian Pablo Villamil <gian.pablo at gmail.com>
> To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 17:26:10 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] email password cracked - what to do?
> I have a bunch of reasonably knowledgeable friends who have had their
> accounts hacked, and it is almost invariably because they use the same
> password on multiple sites. Once one site is cracked, it's like dominos
> falling.
>
> Usually the weak link was an online forum or e-commerce site, usually
> small, home-made, self-admin'ed. All it takes is carelessness, and an
> intruder (or heck, even the site owner fallen on hard times) has a list of
> email accounts and passwords (to that site). Try the passwords against the
> email accounts, facebook accounts, etc, and the hit rate is likely to be
> really high.
>
> A good technique is to use complex root passphrase, with a systematic
> permutation of it for every website you use. Even if the permutation is
> predictable to a human, it will defeat automatic systems.
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:41 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi there!
>> Several email accounts (yahoo) of my friends were compromised in the last
>> few weeks probably due to the weak access passwords. I wonder if it is
>> enough to log in and set a new stronger password and make sure that the
>> internal info for access to different blogs, bank accounts etc which could
>> be among the emails is secured = passwords changed etc.
>>
>> Is this the right way to go?
>>
>> Is there something else to do?
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>>
>> Frantisek
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
> To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 00:40:33 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] email password cracked - what to do?
> Using a password manager (1password, lastpass, or similar) with a very
> strong passphrase as the master password is what I use personally, and
> it's actually more convenient than using the same password every time.
>  1password will generate a completely random password for you for
> every website, and it will also handle valuing the text fields and
> attempting login for you if you configure it right.
>
> 1Password also supports Dropbox so you can have backups and system
> independence built in.
>
> You'd think there would be an elegant solution, but in practice if you
> control the passwords and accounts yourself it's not so bad.
>
> Will.
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi there!
> > Several email accounts (yahoo) of my friends were compromised in the last
> > few weeks probably due to the weak access passwords. I wonder if it is
> > enough to log in and set a new stronger password and make sure that the
> > internal info for access to different blogs, bank accounts etc which
> could
> > be among the emails is secured = passwords changed etc.
> > Is this the right way to go?
> >
> > Is there something else to do?
> > Thanks a lot,
> > Frantisek
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Just Duncan <justduncan at gmail.com>
> To: Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 18:54:33 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] email password cracked - what to do?
> Does it make a difference if the password manager is cloud-based?  I've
> used Roboform in the past on my computers and usb-sticks with it, but the
> latest version is cloud-based and so I haven't coughed up the money to
> upgrade yet.  Should the fact it is cloud based be any cause for concern,
> assuming I have a strong master password?
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Using a password manager (1password, lastpass, or similar) with a very
>> strong passphrase as the master password is what I use personally, and
>> it's actually more convenient than using the same password every time.
>>  1password will generate a completely random password for you for
>> every website, and it will also handle valuing the text fields and
>> attempting login for you if you configure it right.
>>
>> 1Password also supports Dropbox so you can have backups and system
>> independence built in.
>>
>> You'd think there would be an elegant solution, but in practice if you
>> control the passwords and accounts yourself it's not so bad.
>>
>> Will.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi there!
>> > Several email accounts (yahoo) of my friends were compromised in the
>> last
>> > few weeks probably due to the weak access passwords. I wonder if it is
>> > enough to log in and set a new stronger password and make sure that the
>> > internal info for access to different blogs, bank accounts etc which
>> could
>> > be among the emails is secured = passwords changed etc.
>> > Is this the right way to go?
>> >
>> > Is there something else to do?
>> > Thanks a lot,
>> > Frantisek
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: William Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
> To: Just Duncan <justduncan at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 20:53:41 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] email password cracked - what to do?
>
> On Sep 5, 2011, at 6:54 PM, Just Duncan wrote:
>
> > Does it make a difference if the password manager is cloud-based?  I've
> used Roboform in the past on my computers and usb-sticks with it, but the
> latest version is cloud-based and so I haven't coughed up the money to
> upgrade yet.  Should the fact it is cloud based be any cause for concern,
> assuming I have a strong master password?
> >
>
> Assuming that your password files have good strong encryption and you have
> a master password, it should make no difference whether it's cloud based or
> not.
>
> Will.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 00:39:32 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] desktop computer at welcome desk location
> does anyone know who set up the desktop computer at the registration desk
> location, right when you walk into noisebridge?  The computer is locked with
> a password so you can only log in as a guest.
>
> This means one can't even plug in a FTDI serial cable.
>
> The password hint is "di" but all the obvious guesses were tried.
> If i had my password wiper CD i would use it but I don't.
>
> Also, the computer had a problem where it would short out its power supply
> when you breathed, and it seems to be fixed now... so, password?
>
> -jake
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Sai <sai at saizai.com>
> To: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 03:40:27 -0400
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] bettermeans.com for governance
> Y'all may be interested in bettermeans.com. Intro @
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAlnMWlvw9g, org details @
> http://bettermeans.com/front/open_enterprise_governance_model.html
>
> I have no comment on the quality of the service or sanity of the
> model, as I've not used either, but it seems to fit relatively closely
> with the nominal governance methods of NB, such that it may be
> desirable to use for non-IRL-only decisionmaking.
>
> Enjoy,
> - Sai
>
> P.S. [drama], just 'cause damn near anything about NB decisionmaking
> gets tagged with that sooner or later. :-P
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jim <jim at systemateka.com>
> To: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 08:56:39 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] desktop computer at welcome desk
> location
>
>
>    this brings to my mind the idea of a "core", a group
> of people who recognize in themselves and in each other
> a commitment to noisebridge and a willingness to do work
> to help noisebridge survive for its mission (hacking,
> promoting hacking, cross-fertilization of ideas among
> various arts and disciplines).
>    danny is working on a 311 call system that seems to
> want a set of core people who'll volunteer to respond.
>    the recent episode(s) with drunks suggests the need
> for a set of core people who can quickly act with
> confidence to respond to egregiously unexcellent behavior.
>
>    seems to me useful to promote the idea of a core group
> as an informal social structure with, of course, no formal
> powers and no particular mandate other than to try to help
> noisebridge generally (after all, it seems obnoxious to
> set up some kind of excellence police group, and there are
> other runaway possibilities such a group might spin out on).
>    essentially a core group, in my mind, is simply aware
> of their common interests and can identify each other as
> similarly aware and willing to act together to help out.
>
>    i hope some members and non-members will consider this
> suggestion, which i offer in a doocratic and non-consensus-
> requiring spirit.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 00:39 -0700, Jake wrote:
> > does anyone know who set up the desktop computer at the registration desk
> > location, right when you walk into noisebridge?  The computer is locked
> > with a password so you can only log in as a guest.
> >
> > This means one can't even plug in a FTDI serial cable.
> >
> > The password hint is "di" but all the obvious guesses were tried.
> > If i had my password wiper CD i would use it but I don't.
> >
> > Also, the computer had a problem where it would short out its power
> supply
> > when you breathed, and it seems to be fixed now... so, password?
> >
> > -jake
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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