[Noisebridge-discuss] Sigh -- I'm not helping with Maker Faires this year.

VonGuard vonguard at gmail.com
Tue Apr 3 17:19:27 PDT 2012

I will just say that Maker Faire is a really awesome event where lots of
cool hackers can be met and nifty projects can be seen up close.
Noisebridge has had a booth every year since the space was founded. I've
run the booth in the past (can't now, MADE has its own) and every year
people are super excited to find out about the space and see what we're up

And people are expecting Miloh-crafted beverages at the booth. Would be a
shame to not have a booth at all...
On Apr 3, 2012 4:56 PM, "Gopiballava Flaherty" <gopiballava at gmail.com>

> That response I just wrote was too long.
> Simple question: when / who / what could I use the term immoral about
> without it being tyrannical in your opinion?
> Thanks,
> gopi at iPhone
> On Apr 3, 2012, at 16:16, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
> > I don't see it as a red herring at all.  I'll show respect to Von
> > Braun's brilliance even in launching V2s at london to support a war of
> > oppression.  Show respect where it is due.
> >
> > Morality is a nasty thing in some regards.  It's a very personal
> > thing.  What I consider moral and what you consider moral are
> > different beasts and learning to respect someone else's convictions is
> > difficult.
> >
> > You can't judge people's decisions according to your own moral
> > compass.  That in it's own right is unfair to them and quite honestly
> > demeaning and tyrannical.  Their intentions matter more than their
> > actions when morality is discussed.  And if their intentions met their
> > own code of morality and they accepted the consequences of their
> > actions, then who are you to judge them immoral?
> >
> > Yes we have a shared society.  And we have laws we all agree to adhere
> > to.  A code of conduct if you will.  But that is not morality.  It's a
> > framework that allows us to respect each others morals while surviving
> > in proximity to those we don't necessarily agree with.
> >
> > I think you are judging people unfairly here.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Gopiballava Flaherty
> > <gopiballava at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 3, 2012, at 15:49, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> For many people in rural America especially first and second
> >>> generation Americans service in the military offers the only
> >>> reasonable opportunity they have coming out of high school.  If you
> >>> have to emancipate yourself from your parents at 18 and you need to
> >>> start a life for yourself, the incentives offered by the military can
> >>> be the difference between success and failure in a very big way.
> >>
> >> Absolutely. This is very unfortunate IMHO.
> >>
> >>> This is not a clear cut good / bad discussion.  Many people throughout
> >>> history ( especially the Irish ) have fought in wars that were not
> >>> their own, and never a concern of theirs simply because that was the
> >>> best of options made available to them by chance or fate or whatever
> >>> you want to call it.
> >>
> >> Being forced by circumstances into an immoral choice does not make the
> choice moral. I will likely be much less critical of an individual who
> makes such a choice, but I will not call the choice moral.
> >>
> >>> And regardless of a persons reason for entering the military, it is a
> >>> professional choice that demonstrates a strength of character some
> >>> might call courage.
> >>
> >> Red herring. I'm sure you could find many examples of courage shown by
> people during the commission of horrible things. Courage and perseverance
> in the pursuit of moral goals is laudable. Courage and perseverance in the
> pursuit of immoral choices, even when the alternate choices you have are
> unpleasant is not something I see as positive.
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