[Noisebridge-discuss] Rooster watch, round 1 (documenting sleepers at NB)
hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com
Fri Feb 3 11:12:58 PST 2012
That email was really thoughtful and awesome. Jake, I'm putting your
"Noisebridge was born free and pure" quote on the wiki. You are of
course free to remove it:
I think there's more to it than just entropy. There's a substantial
chunk of the community, and probably even some members, who have a
knee-jerk, fairly cruel reaction to any sort of attempt to enforce
community standards. I think that this is part of why so many people
are afraid to confront problems they see in the space. I think that
this may be a net-negative influence, but it is probably also rooted
in our anarchistic/chaotic culture, so I try to be open-minded about
I think that naming sleepers is one of the least damaging but still
productive things we can do as a community. There are a lot of members
who feel strongly about sleeping in the space, and right now they are
angry at a faceless group of people they may have never met. I
personally think photos are unnecessary. I also think full names are
unnecessary. And I don't care if a few people "slip through" by giving
different names when asked, or by having very common names. This isn't
a witch hunt; we don't have to name everyone who's slept at
Noisebridge. When someone has been identified as someone who sleeps at
Noisebridge, members and people who care about the space have the
opportunity to confront them about their behavior. And while it's true
that many people seem to think that direct confrontation is a form of
torture, I'm afraid it's a time-honored Noisebridge tradition.
We have founded our community on mutual respect and open dialog.
Knowing who to talk to about sleeping in the space is the first step
to open dialog, which has thus far evaded us. We just need to start
some sort of dialog with a significant subset of people who sleep at
Noisebridge. I genuinely believe that our one rule is sufficient, but
in order for there to be mutual respect or open dialog there have to
be two(+) parties actually interacting.
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 23:30, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>> kelly wrote:
> I think this is an excellent idea and I am disturbed that people object to
> it. It is mere data collection on a subject that threatens to sap and
> impurify Noisebridge. We all agree that sleeping at noisebridge is
> Perhaps we need to be reminded about why sleeping at nb is a problem.
> Basically, noisebridge was born free and pure. It was composed of
> excellent hackers who had the highest goals in mind of creating a physical
> space where people could come anytime and create things. We thought that
> by renting a space with an open-door policy and inviting more hackers to
> make use of it, the purity of the initialized meatspace would sustain.
> Unfortunately, reality is an agressive dog.
> Entropy takes place in many ways.
> First, people sort supplies and tools and materials in the space, using
> their understanding of what goes where, what is useful, what is communal
> hack material, and what is e-waste. Then, other people come along and
> move things out of their appropriate places because they don't know
> better. This is a fact of life, and the people who spend their time
> straightening up the place are willing to invest energy and time putting
> things back over and over again, to compensate for newbies who are still
> learning what goes where.
> Socially, noisebridge is based on a highly ordered concept of personal
> responsibility and excellence. This positive and productive social
> structure was easier to maintain before noisebridge was discovered by the
> general public. If we want to maintain what might be the most valuable
> aspect of noisebridge culture, we have to be willing to clean up once and
> awhile. Entropy has been taking its toll.
> We have all agreed that noisebridge is not a place to live. When people
> live at noisebridge, they are subtracting from the ability of people to do
> other things with the space. Someone sleeping on the couch means
> 1. other people can't sit on that couch
> 2. people are less likely to engage in vibrant conversation
> 3. people are less likely to use tools or construction practices that make
> a lot of noise
> 4. people are less likely to play upbeat and productivity-inspiring music
> 5. people are less likely to turn on more lights!
> That is just one example.
> When someone uses noisebridge as their residence, they are inherently
> taking up more space than someone who wishes only to use noisebridge a
> place to hack. How many times have you come to noisebridge to get some
> work done, and rather than encounter like-minded folks building something
> interesting, you get dragged into drama about people who are living at
> noisebridge? Have you decreased your time spent at noisebridge as a
> result of negative encounters with people who live or sleep at
> Guess what people, it's a positive-feedback cycle. That means that the
> more people who misuse the space and subtract from the culture of
> excellence, the less people will spend time at noisebridge maintaining
> that excellence.
> Perhaps it is unavoidable that 2169 mission will inevitably shift toward
> being a community center with people living there, collecting rent, and
> enforcing only basic standards of interpersonal behavior (no fighting no
> stealing but anything else goes) and all the creative stuff will be pushed
> out, back to the closet (literally) for hackers living in apartments, and
> the "noisebridge community" broken up and replaced with off-street housing
> for people trying to beat SF rent.
> But i think we should use our hackerly skills, such as databases, charts,
> wiki pages and coordination, to instead reclaim OUR space from entropy.
> kelly wrote:
> Hi noisefolks,
> Since the sleeper controversy seems to be especially problematic
> lately, I'm trying to coordinate some data collection about the
> sleeping problem. Clearly, once we can graph the problem, it will be
> I've made a wiki page for the Rooster Brigade, a volunteer group of
> noisebridgers who are willing to stand up (or sit down and type) and
> name people who are sleeping at Noisebridge. The goal of this effort
> is partly so daytime noisebridgers can learn about the nocturnal
> community, but also so that the nocturnal community can learn about
> the goals of the larger community. Hopefully if we pool our collective
> knowledge about frustrating confrontations and habitual sleepers, some
> sort of consensus can arise about how to address the problem.
> Here's how you can help!
> 1. If you see someone sleeping at noisebridge, find out who they are.
> This can be accomplished by asking others in the space, photographing
> them and asking someone later, or waking them and asking yourself.
> 2. Write their name on the wiki on the day and time you encountered
> them sleeping. A brief description of the situation is also helpful.
> Were they faceplanted in a soldering iron? Did they have a sleeping
> bag, luggage or houseplants?
> Thanks very much for your participation. When we have enough data, I
> will fit it to a general linear model and we can all argue about
> correcting for multiple comparisons.
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