[Noisebridge-discuss] A modest proposal.

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Mon Feb 13 19:46:12 PST 2012


That is the thing.  Making these one off exceptions based on your net
excellence is a horrible way to do this.  What if I spend every day
cleaning the kitchen, bathrooms, classrooms, shop and the rest of the
space.  Then I decide I want to finish up any other leftover projects in
the space (think about the unfinished storage closet and any electrical
work).  If I do all of this most likely because I have nothing better to do
and want to earn "excellence".  I now want to crash here and sleep all
night.

Is this ok?  No.  It is not.  Lets just keep the line at no sleeping.  If
you are passing out at the space, that is a liability in more ways than
just having someone sleep at noisebridge.  What if they are having a
medical emergency and we just let them sleep and they die in the space?  I
think the simple rule should just be no sleeping as Shannon said.

DISCLAIMER:  I am not a member.

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think that there are plenty of members who overtly think napping is
> ok, and it's not just that they don't want to play sleep police.
> Myself, for instance. But it depends a lot on the circumstances.
>
> But I'm a pretty gray-area-friendly person in general. And I respect
> the members who think sleeping is never acceptable (Shannon is not the
> only one). I think that the definition of excellence on this matter is
> somewhat of an average of our collective opinions on the subject. As
> such, I would say it's probably never the case that sleeping is
> actually excellent. It is just more or less un-excellent depending on
> the circumstances.
>
> And as I have been surmising a lot lately, excellence at noisebridge
> is generally a net measurement. I don't know if there is anything so
> awesome that would make up for actually crashing at Noisebridge
> overnight on a regular basis. But if you do lots of awesome and nap
> for an hour, we won't kick you out for it.
>
> -Kelly
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 16:57, Shannon Lee <shannon at scatter.com> wrote:
> > With all due respect, Martin, it's never OK to sleep at Noisebridge.
>  Just
> > never.  Please stop trying to parse it more finely; it's a nice, clear,
> > bright line.   Never.
> >
> > The fact that it's part of a planned itinerary and that you intend to use
> > Noisebridge as somewhere to sleep makes it worse, not better.
> >
> > It is often the case that nobody will choose to call you out for
> sleeping at
> > Noisebridge, because you look like you belong there or because lots of
> > Noisebridge people have better things to do that be the Sleep Police, but
> > just because nobody forced you not to do it does not mean that it was OK
> for
> > you to do it.
> >
> > There is a hotel on the next block up that's pretty cheap (less than $50
> per
> > night, last time I looked).  That's an appropriate place to sleep.
> >
> > --S
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Martin Bogomolni <martinbogo at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Here is a typical scenario for me, on a Monday or Tuesday early
> >> morning on a week when I fly in from Austin.
> >>
> >> My red-eye flights tend to arrive at SFO at 4'ish in the morning, and
> >> tend to leave late around 11pm.
> >>
> >> I like to try to make my first and last stop of a trip coming into
> >> noisebridge to unwind, get some last minute hacking in, make a cup of
> >> tea or coffee, and spend it in the company of other hackerly-minded
> >> people.     Work starts for me in San Mateo around 9am, so I take
> >> advantage of BART to get me to NB, and then back to the Millbrae
> >> station to carshare my way to work.
> >>
> >> Coming in that early, especially after not particularly sleeping on an
> >> airplane, is rough.   I'm choosing to rest in a space I know is safe,
> >> in good company, as opposed to driving when tired all the way down to
> >> Santa Cruz.   Before coming over, I always make sure to groom and
> >> clean up at the airport, make myself presentable and clean.
> >>
> >> Occasionally, I've put on a pair of headphones, put down my laptop and
> >> stopped coding or doing my ops/sysdamin work and nodded off.    I'm
> >> choosing to rest in one of the only places I have nearby as opposed to
> >> driving when tired all the way down to Santa Cruz.   Sure, it's a
> >> power nap as opposed to crashing hard at the space, but I think the
> >> distinction is important, and I take into account what people are
> >> doing around me.   I have been gently shaken awake once, and the
> >> person who did so in my opinion had every right to do so.
> >>
> >> It's easy to get embroiled in the "NO SLEEP"/"sleep" argument, but to
> >> me it still all boils down to "Am I being bad/rude and getting in the
> >> way of someone's hack?"   Generally not .. and I think the being
> >> clean, and accepting of someone waking me up if I am blocking their
> >> hack, is part of being respectful of other people at NB.
> >>
> >> Is it right to turn NB into a kind of second home?  No! of course not.
> >>  But common sense says that the other extreme isn't right either.
> >>
> >> So to me the question of "When is it okay to sleep at Noisebridge?" is
> >> answered by "When it is the consensus of the people around you that
> >> you're not imposing on them by doing so."
> >>
> >> As soon as you're in the way hacking, I'm betting a wake-up call isn't
> >> far behind.   If your hygiene is poor, if you impose on the resources
> >> of NB without giving back, if you aren't engaged in an activity
> >> related to being in the NB community, and not being respectful of
> >> those around you?   I think you'll get a whole different kind of
> >> wake-up call as well .. likely the kind that the community gives when
> >> they would rather not see you there at all.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shannon Lee
> > (503) 539-3700
> >
> > "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> _______________________________________________
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>



-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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