[Noisebridge-discuss] Turing: Equipment Removed
jim at well.com
Mon Feb 27 16:16:47 PST 2012
I suggested 7 PM to Tom, have not heard back yet.
On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 15:52 -0800, Danny O'Brien wrote:
> I really think it makes sense for Ben, Tom and Jim to meet in real
> life. I'm pretty sure there's a solution that can be worked out; none
> of you are particularly insane, and you've all done huge amounts for
> building out Noisebridge infrastructure...
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
> > Please read this. I do not believe this email is drama.
> > I've tried to articulate a problem and am asking for direct
> > responses at the least from Ben and Tom.
> > Not only do I ask that you read, I ask that you read
> > thoughtfully.
> > How did the drill press and saws get into the dirty
> > workshop? For that matter, how is it that the dirty workshop
> > is there? Likewise for the darkroom and the electronics area
> > with its 'scopes and soldering irons and lots and lots of
> > wires, semiconductors, passives.... Likewise for the sewing
> > area with the machines and the bins of material and drawers
> > of tools and supplies.
> > How about the Tastebridge territory with its special
> > refrigerator and shelves of jars and so on, not to mention
> > the related kitchen with its shelves and cupboards and so on?
> > Put things in member shelves? There are a couple of issues:
> > * spacebridge stuff occupies a number of shelves. Why?
> > * member shelves are subject to mismanagement, it's now obvious.
> > As to Turing, do you have plans to remove the whiteboard
> > and/or the electrical conduit?
> > Generally, the answers are that people saw opportunity for
> > making use of some area for some particular purpose. The
> > discussions preliminary to setting up various areas were as
> > varied as the areas and people who set them up. None of them
> > were subject to a meeting's discussion or consensus process or
> > anything else. Each was do-ocratically established, in some
> > cases with negotiations with others wrt their interests (e.g.
> > I negotiated the "library" space with those who'd claimed that
> > wall for photo display).
> > The multiple discussions about classrooms in which I've
> > participated have noted the need for a classroom area that has
> > a projector and sound system, similar to the main area, and to
> > provide an alternative area so that smaller groups aren't stuck
> > with using the projector and sound system in the main area
> > (which allows people in the main area freedom from the needs of
> > a group using the main projector, etc.). Turing makes good sense
> > as such an alternate area.
> > From time to time there have been do-ocratic efforts, both
> > in the space and on the mailing list, to clean things up and/or
> > reorganize and/or impress conformance.
> > Those that took a positive tone to make improvements, in my
> > recall, were more successful (especially with respect to
> > emotional storms on the discuss list) than those that included
> > a negative proscriptive component.
> > Questions that arise in my mind include "why are you focusing
> > on the turing classroom?" "why are you not focusing on the little
> > storage and rack closet?" Those are real questions, I'm hoping
> > for answers. (I've noticed Ben's response re "electrical closet".)
> > I've not experienced such negatively oriented interference
> > in any other development of an area in our space. I'd like to
> > know why Turing and why now and why in this obnoxious manner.
> > My intention is to set up the Turing classroom so that it
> > supports classes. I have a lot of experience as a classroom
> > lecturer--something like ten years in accredited schools, with
> > notable success.
> > Note that I intend to continue setting up the Turing
> > classroom to be a good and useful classroom, and I expect, in
> > the spirit of do-ocracy and noisebridge's history, that you
> > will respect my efforts to do so.
> > As far as I know, there has been no time when the Turing
> > classroom didn't work for a meeting or class. Space in that
> > room has not been at a premium so far, even with the stuff
> > that's been squirreled in there under tables against the north
> > wall (much or most of it not related to any building or
> > improvement that i know of).
> > A people reading this may recall my occasional pleas in
> > Tuesday evening meetings for people to step up and take
> > ownership of various spaces. A few of you have done so, and
> > with respect to electricity, when you've asked for electrical
> > devices, I've tried to help out:
> > * outlets on the south wall (now buried by shelves)
> > * large capacity run to the kitchen area
> > * removing and reorganizing the electrical mess that we
> > inherited
> > * totally rebuilt the guts of the primary three-phase sub-panel
> > * installed interior entrance lights
> > * brought three-phase availability in the dirty shop
> > * all darkroom electricity
> > * east end lighting improvement
> > * laser cutter dedicated circuit
> > * main room ceiling lights and switches
> > * infrastructure closet lighting and power
> > I've given up trying to defend order in the infrastructure
> > closet, having built all shelves and storage areas to see them
> > trashed, filled with random stuff, shelving materials removed,
> > and noisebridge electrical supplies removed to piles, wrecking
> > the organization I'd worked hard on.
> > As long as I'm building this list, I'll add: I was one of
> > the few who championed improving the floor before we moved in
> > and I put a lot of hours working on the prep and sanding and
> > filling and finishing.
> > Can you understand that the censorious manner you're taking
> > to my work to improve the Turing classroom is irritating?
> > As I wrote earlier in this email, I have not witnessed such
> > an approach as you have taken with respect to any other area in
> > the time we've been either here, at 2169, or at 83C weisse. I
> > ask again: why are you acting in this way?
> > Note I'm not complaining about trying to improve things; I'm
> > complaining hard about the way you're demanding behavior that
> > has been actually sanctioned for every other improvement in the
> > past. (Note also that the build-out policy is that people can
> > bring and leave their personal tools and supplies needed to do
> > their work as long as they label their tools and supplies.)
> > I expect that you will, at the least, let me continue to
> > try to improve the Turing classroom by curtailing behavior that
> > demands foolish conformity and is contradictory to established
> > Noisebridge norms for improving the space.
> > I welcome cleaning and organizing efforts. I have pretty
> > much given up on trying to rescue or reorganize Noisebridge
> > supplies such as (expensive) copper wire. When we run out of
> > wire, I'll not resupply--I've spent enough already. If you've
> > thrown out the wire that Noisebridge has paid for, please go
> > to an electrical supply store and replace it.
> > I'd like positive support, but i'll gladly take silence.
> > On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 22:19 -0800, Ben Kochie wrote:
> >> Jim, storing things in the classroom, while traditional, is still not
> >> the intended use for that space. We have been trying to clean up the
> >> room and make it more habitable and inviting for classes of all kinds.
> >> The things you talk about are in their appropriate locations.
> >> Yes, I know you teach classes in there, but that's only a day or two a
> >> week. If you want to setup a permanent location for teaching Linux
> >> serving, please talk to me on Tuesday night. I'd love to help.
> >> I cleaned out the ewaste and some other garbage from the electrical
> >> closet. I have a bit more organizing to do, but there should be more
> >> than enough room to hold all the electrical spare parts in there.
> >> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 19:02, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Do you plan to take the saws and drills out of
> >> > the dirty workshop? remove the refrigerator from
> >> > the kitchen area? How about the sewing machines
> >> > and oscilloscopes?
> >> > I'd like to meet you and talk.
> >> > jim
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 17:41 -0800, Tom wrote:
> >> >> As I said on the list almost two weeks ago, then announced at last
> >> >> week's meeting, I have removed the computer/audio equipment and
> >> >> speakers from Turing, and placed them in the e-waste pile. Please find
> >> >> them a better home on your hacker shelf, or somewhere else where space
> >> >> is not a premium! If you do so, go ahead and use them for classes in
> >> >> Turing, but remove them afterwards. If these items end up stored in
> >> >> Turing again, I intend to remove them permanently.
> >> >
> >> >
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