[Noisebridge-discuss] Turing: Equipment Removed

Gian Pablo Villamil gian.pablo at gmail.com
Mon Feb 27 21:48:35 PST 2012


I stand with Jim on this.

His use of the space is, I think, one of the emblematic activities at
Noisebridge, and one of the few that has taken place so consistently and
effectively. Whatever he thinks he needs to do to make it happen, I support.

There are other far more important things to deal with at Noisebridge than
the Turing classroom. I really don't understand the belligerent tone from
Tom on this. What does he plan to do with the space once it is "cleaned
up"? I know what Jim plans, and I heartily support it.

Give Jim the benefit of the doubt on this. Don't piss him off. We've
already lost too many good people.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:

>
>
>    Please read this. I do not believe this email is drama.
> I've tried to articulate a problem and am asking for direct
> responses at the least from Ben and Tom.
>
>    Not only do I ask that you read, I ask that you read
> thoughtfully.
>    How did the drill press and saws get into the dirty
> workshop? For that matter, how is it that the dirty workshop
> is there? Likewise for the darkroom and the electronics area
> with its 'scopes and soldering irons and lots and lots of
> wires, semiconductors, passives.... Likewise for the sewing
> area with the machines and the bins of material and drawers
> of tools and supplies.
>    How about the Tastebridge territory with its special
> refrigerator and shelves of jars and so on, not to mention
> the related kitchen with its shelves and cupboards and so on?
>    Put things in member shelves? There are a couple of issues:
> * spacebridge stuff occupies a number of shelves. Why?
> * member shelves are subject to mismanagement, it's now obvious.
>    As to Turing, do you have plans to remove the whiteboard
> and/or the electrical conduit?
>
>    Generally, the answers are that people saw opportunity for
> making use of some area for some particular purpose. The
> discussions preliminary to setting up various areas were as
> varied as the areas and people who set them up. None of them
> were subject to a meeting's discussion or consensus process or
> anything else. Each was do-ocratically established, in some
> cases with negotiations with others wrt their interests (e.g.
> I negotiated the "library" space with those who'd claimed that
> wall for photo display).
>
>    The multiple discussions about classrooms in which I've
> participated have noted the need for a classroom area that has
> a projector and sound system, similar to the main area, and to
> provide an alternative area so that smaller groups aren't stuck
> with using the projector and sound system in the main area
> (which allows people in the main area freedom from the needs of
> a group using the main projector, etc.). Turing makes good sense
> as such an alternate area.
>
>    From time to time there have been do-ocratic efforts, both
> in the space and on the mailing list, to clean things up and/or
> reorganize and/or impress conformance.
>    Those that took a positive tone to make improvements, in my
> recall, were more successful (especially with respect to
> emotional storms on the discuss list) than those that included
> a negative proscriptive component.
>
>    Questions that arise in my mind include "why are you focusing
> on the turing classroom?" "why are you not focusing on the little
> storage and rack closet?" Those are real questions, I'm hoping
> for answers. (I've noticed Ben's response re "electrical closet".)
>    I've not experienced such negatively oriented interference
> in any other development of an area in our space. I'd like to
> know why Turing and why now and why in this obnoxious manner.
>
>    My intention is to set up the Turing classroom so that it
> supports classes. I have a lot of experience as a classroom
> lecturer--something like ten years in accredited schools, with
> notable success.
>    Note that I intend to continue setting up the Turing
> classroom to be a good and useful classroom, and I expect, in
> the spirit of do-ocracy and noisebridge's history, that you
> will respect my efforts to do so.
>    As far as I know, there has been no time when the Turing
> classroom didn't work for a meeting or class. Space in that
> room has not been at a premium so far, even with the stuff
> that's been squirreled in there under tables against the north
> wall (much or most of it not related to any building or
> improvement that i know of).
>
>    A people reading this may recall my occasional pleas in
> Tuesday evening meetings for people to step up and take
> ownership of various spaces. A few of you have done so, and
> with respect to electricity, when you've asked for electrical
> devices, I've tried to help out:
> * outlets on the south wall (now buried by shelves)
> * large capacity run to the kitchen area
> * removing and reorganizing the electrical mess that we
>  inherited
> * totally rebuilt the guts of the primary three-phase sub-panel
> * installed interior entrance lights
> * brought three-phase availability in the dirty shop
> * all darkroom electricity
> * east end lighting improvement
> * laser cutter dedicated circuit
> * main room ceiling lights and switches
> * infrastructure closet lighting and power
>    I've given up trying to defend order in the infrastructure
> closet, having built all shelves and storage areas to see them
> trashed, filled with random stuff, shelving materials removed,
> and noisebridge electrical supplies removed to piles, wrecking
> the organization I'd worked hard on.
>
>    As long as I'm building this list, I'll add: I was one of
> the few who championed improving the floor before we moved in
> and I put a lot of hours working on the prep and sanding and
> filling and finishing.
>
>    Can you understand that the censorious manner you're taking
> to my work to improve the Turing classroom is irritating?
>    As I wrote earlier in this email, I have not witnessed such
> an approach as you have taken with respect to any other area in
> the time we've been either here, at 2169, or at 83C weisse. I
> ask again: why are you acting in this way?
>    Note I'm not complaining about trying to improve things; I'm
> complaining hard about the way you're demanding behavior that
> has been actually sanctioned for every other improvement in the
> past. (Note also that the build-out policy is that people can
> bring and leave their personal tools and supplies needed to do
> their work as long as they label their tools and supplies.)
>    I expect that you will, at the least, let me continue to
> try to improve the Turing classroom by curtailing behavior that
> demands foolish conformity and is contradictory to established
> Noisebridge norms for improving the space.
>    I welcome cleaning and organizing efforts. I have pretty
> much given up on trying to rescue or reorganize Noisebridge
> supplies such as (expensive) copper wire. When we run out of
> wire, I'll not resupply--I've spent enough already. If you've
> thrown out the wire that Noisebridge has paid for, please go
> to an electrical supply store and replace it.
>    I'd like positive support, but i'll gladly take silence.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 22:19 -0800, Ben Kochie wrote:
> > Jim, storing things in the classroom, while traditional, is still not
> > the intended use for that space.  We have been trying to clean up the
> > room and make it more habitable and inviting for classes of all kinds.
> >  The things you talk about are in their appropriate locations.
> >
> > Yes, I know you teach classes in there, but that's only a day or two a
> > week.  If you want to setup a permanent location for teaching Linux
> > serving, please talk to me on Tuesday night.  I'd love to help.
> >
> > I cleaned out the ewaste and some other garbage from the electrical
> > closet.  I have a bit more organizing to do, but there should be more
> > than enough room to hold all the electrical spare parts in there.
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 19:02, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >    Do you plan to take the saws and drills out of
> > > the dirty workshop? remove the refrigerator from
> > > the kitchen area? How about the sewing machines
> > > and oscilloscopes?
> > >    I'd like to meet you and talk.
> > > jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 17:41 -0800, Tom wrote:
> > >> As I said on the list almost two weeks ago, then announced at last
> > >> week's meeting, I have removed the computer/audio equipment and
> > >> speakers from Turing, and placed them in the e-waste pile. Please find
> > >> them a better home on your hacker shelf, or somewhere else where space
> > >> is not a premium! If you do so, go ahead and use them for classes in
> > >> Turing, but remove them afterwards. If these items end up stored in
> > >> Turing again, I intend to remove them permanently.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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>
>
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