[Noisebridge-discuss] Turing: Equipment Removed

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Tue Feb 28 10:40:20 PST 2012


You are right.  It does give the person being dicked a chance to not get
dicked though.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:

> If Gian Pablo thinks you are being a dick and is willing to call you out
> on it.  You ARE being a dick.
> On Feb 28, 2012 8:59 AM, "Gian Pablo Villamil" <gian.pablo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Giving massive notice that you're going to be a dick does not excuse
>> being a dick.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 2:22 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I mostly agree as well but at the same time, there was apparently
>>> massive notice given. I do notice all of the awesome work that Jim has put
>>> into the placefrom both the classes he teaches as well as the physical work
>>> he has done in the space.  I am sure we can come up with a better solution
>>> than putting this equipment on the floor in Turing.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 11:43 PM, girlgeek <girlgeek at wt.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  +1
>>>> -Claudia
>>>> On 2/27/2012 9:48 PM, Gian Pablo Villamil wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I stand with Jim on this.
>>>>
>>>>  His use of the space is, I think, one of the emblematic activities at
>>>> Noisebridge, and one of the few that has taken place so consistently and
>>>> effectively. Whatever he thinks he needs to do to make it happen, I support.
>>>>
>>>>  There are other far more important things to deal with at Noisebridge
>>>> than the Turing classroom. I really don't understand the belligerent tone
>>>> from Tom on this. What does he plan to do with the space once it is
>>>> "cleaned up"? I know what Jim plans, and I heartily support it.
>>>>
>>>>  Give Jim the benefit of the doubt on this. Don't piss him off. We've
>>>> already lost too many good people.
>>>>
>>>>  On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Please read this. I do not believe this email is drama.
>>>>> I've tried to articulate a problem and am asking for direct
>>>>> responses at the least from Ben and Tom.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Not only do I ask that you read, I ask that you read
>>>>> thoughtfully.
>>>>>    How did the drill press and saws get into the dirty
>>>>> workshop? For that matter, how is it that the dirty workshop
>>>>> is there? Likewise for the darkroom and the electronics area
>>>>> with its 'scopes and soldering irons and lots and lots of
>>>>> wires, semiconductors, passives.... Likewise for the sewing
>>>>> area with the machines and the bins of material and drawers
>>>>> of tools and supplies.
>>>>>    How about the Tastebridge territory with its special
>>>>> refrigerator and shelves of jars and so on, not to mention
>>>>> the related kitchen with its shelves and cupboards and so on?
>>>>>    Put things in member shelves? There are a couple of issues:
>>>>> * spacebridge stuff occupies a number of shelves. Why?
>>>>> * member shelves are subject to mismanagement, it's now obvious.
>>>>>    As to Turing, do you have plans to remove the whiteboard
>>>>> and/or the electrical conduit?
>>>>>
>>>>>    Generally, the answers are that people saw opportunity for
>>>>> making use of some area for some particular purpose. The
>>>>> discussions preliminary to setting up various areas were as
>>>>> varied as the areas and people who set them up. None of them
>>>>> were subject to a meeting's discussion or consensus process or
>>>>> anything else. Each was do-ocratically established, in some
>>>>> cases with negotiations with others wrt their interests (e.g.
>>>>> I negotiated the "library" space with those who'd claimed that
>>>>> wall for photo display).
>>>>>
>>>>>    The multiple discussions about classrooms in which I've
>>>>> participated have noted the need for a classroom area that has
>>>>> a projector and sound system, similar to the main area, and to
>>>>> provide an alternative area so that smaller groups aren't stuck
>>>>> with using the projector and sound system in the main area
>>>>> (which allows people in the main area freedom from the needs of
>>>>> a group using the main projector, etc.). Turing makes good sense
>>>>> as such an alternate area.
>>>>>
>>>>>    From time to time there have been do-ocratic efforts, both
>>>>> in the space and on the mailing list, to clean things up and/or
>>>>> reorganize and/or impress conformance.
>>>>>    Those that took a positive tone to make improvements, in my
>>>>> recall, were more successful (especially with respect to
>>>>> emotional storms on the discuss list) than those that included
>>>>> a negative proscriptive component.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Questions that arise in my mind include "why are you focusing
>>>>> on the turing classroom?" "why are you not focusing on the little
>>>>> storage and rack closet?" Those are real questions, I'm hoping
>>>>> for answers. (I've noticed Ben's response re "electrical closet".)
>>>>>    I've not experienced such negatively oriented interference
>>>>> in any other development of an area in our space. I'd like to
>>>>> know why Turing and why now and why in this obnoxious manner.
>>>>>
>>>>>    My intention is to set up the Turing classroom so that it
>>>>> supports classes. I have a lot of experience as a classroom
>>>>> lecturer--something like ten years in accredited schools, with
>>>>> notable success.
>>>>>    Note that I intend to continue setting up the Turing
>>>>> classroom to be a good and useful classroom, and I expect, in
>>>>> the spirit of do-ocracy and noisebridge's history, that you
>>>>> will respect my efforts to do so.
>>>>>    As far as I know, there has been no time when the Turing
>>>>> classroom didn't work for a meeting or class. Space in that
>>>>> room has not been at a premium so far, even with the stuff
>>>>> that's been squirreled in there under tables against the north
>>>>> wall (much or most of it not related to any building or
>>>>> improvement that i know of).
>>>>>
>>>>>    A people reading this may recall my occasional pleas in
>>>>> Tuesday evening meetings for people to step up and take
>>>>> ownership of various spaces. A few of you have done so, and
>>>>> with respect to electricity, when you've asked for electrical
>>>>> devices, I've tried to help out:
>>>>> * outlets on the south wall (now buried by shelves)
>>>>> * large capacity run to the kitchen area
>>>>> * removing and reorganizing the electrical mess that we
>>>>>  inherited
>>>>> * totally rebuilt the guts of the primary three-phase sub-panel
>>>>> * installed interior entrance lights
>>>>> * brought three-phase availability in the dirty shop
>>>>> * all darkroom electricity
>>>>> * east end lighting improvement
>>>>> * laser cutter dedicated circuit
>>>>> * main room ceiling lights and switches
>>>>> * infrastructure closet lighting and power
>>>>>    I've given up trying to defend order in the infrastructure
>>>>> closet, having built all shelves and storage areas to see them
>>>>> trashed, filled with random stuff, shelving materials removed,
>>>>> and noisebridge electrical supplies removed to piles, wrecking
>>>>> the organization I'd worked hard on.
>>>>>
>>>>>    As long as I'm building this list, I'll add: I was one of
>>>>> the few who championed improving the floor before we moved in
>>>>> and I put a lot of hours working on the prep and sanding and
>>>>> filling and finishing.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Can you understand that the censorious manner you're taking
>>>>> to my work to improve the Turing classroom is irritating?
>>>>>    As I wrote earlier in this email, I have not witnessed such
>>>>> an approach as you have taken with respect to any other area in
>>>>> the time we've been either here, at 2169, or at 83C weisse. I
>>>>> ask again: why are you acting in this way?
>>>>>    Note I'm not complaining about trying to improve things; I'm
>>>>> complaining hard about the way you're demanding behavior that
>>>>> has been actually sanctioned for every other improvement in the
>>>>> past. (Note also that the build-out policy is that people can
>>>>> bring and leave their personal tools and supplies needed to do
>>>>> their work as long as they label their tools and supplies.)
>>>>>    I expect that you will, at the least, let me continue to
>>>>> try to improve the Turing classroom by curtailing behavior that
>>>>> demands foolish conformity and is contradictory to established
>>>>> Noisebridge norms for improving the space.
>>>>>    I welcome cleaning and organizing efforts. I have pretty
>>>>> much given up on trying to rescue or reorganize Noisebridge
>>>>> supplies such as (expensive) copper wire. When we run out of
>>>>> wire, I'll not resupply--I've spent enough already. If you've
>>>>> thrown out the wire that Noisebridge has paid for, please go
>>>>> to an electrical supply store and replace it.
>>>>>    I'd like positive support, but i'll gladly take silence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 22:19 -0800, Ben Kochie wrote:
>>>>> > Jim, storing things in the classroom, while traditional, is still not
>>>>> > the intended use for that space.  We have been trying to clean up the
>>>>> > room and make it more habitable and inviting for classes of all
>>>>> kinds.
>>>>> >  The things you talk about are in their appropriate locations.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yes, I know you teach classes in there, but that's only a day or two
>>>>> a
>>>>> > week.  If you want to setup a permanent location for teaching Linux
>>>>> > serving, please talk to me on Tuesday night.  I'd love to help.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I cleaned out the ewaste and some other garbage from the electrical
>>>>> > closet.  I have a bit more organizing to do, but there should be more
>>>>> > than enough room to hold all the electrical spare parts in there.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 19:02, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >    Do you plan to take the saws and drills out of
>>>>> > > the dirty workshop? remove the refrigerator from
>>>>> > > the kitchen area? How about the sewing machines
>>>>> > > and oscilloscopes?
>>>>> > >    I'd like to meet you and talk.
>>>>> > > jim
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 17:41 -0800, Tom wrote:
>>>>> > >> As I said on the list almost two weeks ago, then announced at last
>>>>> > >> week's meeting, I have removed the computer/audio equipment and
>>>>> > >> speakers from Turing, and placed them in the e-waste pile. Please
>>>>> find
>>>>> > >> them a better home on your hacker shelf, or somewhere else where
>>>>> space
>>>>> > >> is not a premium! If you do so, go ahead and use them for classes
>>>>> in
>>>>> > >> Turing, but remove them afterwards. If these items end up stored
>>>>> in
>>>>> > >> Turing again, I intend to remove them permanently.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing listNoisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.nethttps://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>> Systems Engineer
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>


-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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