[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave

Joseph Brenner doomvox at gmail.com
Thu May 3 16:41:04 PDT 2012

Didn't you folks talk this out at the last meeting?

(If they'd called a meeting to discuss a ban, would you have gone to
the meeting?)

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:
> You know...it's funny.  I still have no idea what she did wrong.
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer feeling
>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't enough of a
>> hacker and she should leave.
>> This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.
>> R.
>> On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>> I couldn't have said it better myself.
>>> Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?
>>> I have to say,  I have noticed that some people (including Jesse for
>>> sure)
>>> seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing around into the
>>> reactionary zone after we started dealing with the occupiers.
>>> Please re-read the below and let's not make the same mistakes again.
>>> Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad judgement on the part
>>> of
>>> the people who did it.
>>> What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female members told
>>> them
>>> to leave?
>>> Carl said:
>>> You know I don't post here all that much, but I really felt that I had
>>> to respond to this...
>>> I've read through all of the comments about what transpired with
>>> Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes.  Although I haven't
>>> been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from what I've read so
>>> far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in this situation
>>> treated her.  (This would include Jesse, Will, and apparently a third
>>> man.)
>>> First of all, calling the police really should not be done unless:
>>> 1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another person, causing
>>> damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing trouble or
>>> performing an illegal activity.
>>> 2. A person who has been officially banned from the space refuses to
>>> leave.  And by "official", I mean a due process has been followed
>>> whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to ban a
>>> particular person.
>>> 3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to handle the
>>> situation on our own should we get the police involved.
>>> I find it troubling when individuals take it upon themselves to forcibly
>>> remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what I've read, did
>>> NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave.  I believe it was
>>> wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in this case, prior
>>> to taking it up at a meeting where the members could discuss and make a
>>> decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND ONLY AFTER
>>> this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to ask someone to
>>> not return.  (and as she brought up, informing her of this could have
>>> been done through email prior to her arrival in order to avoid this
>>> confrontation.)
>>> I am also troubled by the flippant and immature responses on this list
>>> about Cynthia being "crazy".  Her past talk of legal actions against
>>> Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired.  As far as I can
>>> tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the Oogles started
>>> arriving at the space.  The first time Noisebridge ever banned anyone,
>>> it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.  Nowadays it
>>> seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't like.  How and why
>>> did we get to this point?  And I'm not just talking about Cynthia here,
>>> but others as well.  (take Erica for example, who no longer feels
>>> welcome here.)
>>> And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt non-hacker hate
>>> mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will only drive away
>>> new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture.  If we try to
>>> make an effort to become friends with them, then we can encourage
>>> newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by involving them
>>> with our projects.  Instead of rejecting them, we should be trying to
>>> encourage them to become productive participants in our community.
>>> -Carl
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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> Einstein
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> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exupéry
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