[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave

Jake jake at spaz.org
Thu May 3 17:24:12 PDT 2012


yes because whenever people say something is too horrible to possibly 
discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about everything else, it just 
sounds like there's really nothing to say and they're trying to cover the 
lack of justification for what they did with secrecy.

let's hear it.

On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:

> The people who were actually there and made the call, did not want to
> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the meeting.
>
> Would hashing things out a second time here, for the people who don't
> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:
>> Irony is lost on this one.
>>
>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or SATAN
>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
>>
>> Feynman, help us.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions are making noisebridge
>>> look bad.  and getting the police to come over.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>> You know...it's funny.  I still have no idea what she did wrong.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
>>>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer feeling
>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't
>>>>      enough of a hacker and she should leave.
>>>>
>>>>      This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.
>>>>
>>>>      R.
>>>>
>>>>      On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>            I couldn't have said it better myself.
>>>>
>>>>            Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?
>>>>
>>>>            I have to say,  I have noticed that some people (including
>>>> Jesse for sure)
>>>>            seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing around
>>>> into the
>>>>            reactionary zone after we started dealing with the occupiers.
>>>>
>>>>            Please re-read the below and let's not make the same mistakes
>>>> again.
>>>>            Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad judgement on
>>>> the part of
>>>>            the people who did it.
>>>>
>>>>            What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female
>>>> members told them
>>>>            to leave?
>>>>
>>>>            Carl said:
>>>>            You know I don't post here all that much, but I really felt
>>>> that I had
>>>>            to respond to this...
>>>>
>>>>            I've read through all of the comments about what transpired
>>>> with
>>>>            Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes.  Although
>>>> I haven't
>>>>            been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from what
>>>> I've read so
>>>>            far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in this
>>>> situation
>>>>            treated her.  (This would include Jesse, Will, and apparently
>>>> a third
>>>>            man.)
>>>>
>>>>            First of all, calling the police really should not be done
>>>> unless:
>>>>
>>>>            1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another person,
>>>> causing
>>>>            damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing trouble or
>>>>            performing an illegal activity.
>>>>
>>>>            2. A person who has been officially banned from the space
>>>> refuses to
>>>>            leave.  And by "official", I mean a due process has been
>>>> followed
>>>>            whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to ban a
>>>>            particular person.
>>>>
>>>>            3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to
>>>> handle the
>>>>            situation on our own should we get the police involved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            I find it troubling when individuals take it upon themselves
>>>> to forcibly
>>>>            remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what I've
>>>> read, did
>>>>            NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave.  I
>>>> believe it was
>>>>            wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in this
>>>> case, prior
>>>>            to taking it up at a meeting where the members could discuss
>>>> and make a
>>>>            decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND ONLY
>>>> AFTER
>>>>            this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to ask
>>>> someone to
>>>>            not return.  (and as she brought up, informing her of this
>>>> could have
>>>>            been done through email prior to her arrival in order to avoid
>>>> this
>>>>            confrontation.)
>>>>
>>>>            I am also troubled by the flippant and immature responses on
>>>> this list
>>>>            about Cynthia being "crazy".  Her past talk of legal actions
>>>> against
>>>>            Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired.  As far
>>>> as I can
>>>>            tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the
>>>> Oogles started
>>>>            arriving at the space.  The first time Noisebridge ever banned
>>>> anyone,
>>>>            it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.
>>>>  Nowadays it
>>>>            seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't like.
>>>>  How and why
>>>>            did we get to this point?  And I'm not just talking about
>>>> Cynthia here,
>>>>            but others as well.  (take Erica for example, who no longer
>>>> feels
>>>>            welcome here.)
>>>>
>>>>            And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt non-hacker
>>>> hate
>>>>            mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will only
>>>> drive away
>>>>            new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture.  If we
>>>> try to
>>>>            make an effort to become friends with them, then we can
>>>> encourage
>>>>            newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by
>>>> involving them
>>>>            with our projects.  Instead of rejecting them, we should be
>>>> trying to
>>>>            encourage them to become productive participants in our
>>>> community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            -Carl
>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>
>>>>  https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
>>>> Einstein
>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
>>>>
>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
>> Einstein
>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there
>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
>>
>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>


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