[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave

Joseph Brenner doomvox at gmail.com
Thu May 3 17:27:56 PDT 2012


Uh huh.  And when people aren't actually willing to show their face to
talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet troll that
doesn't need to be taken seriously.

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> yes because whenever people say something is too horrible to possibly
> discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about everything else, it just
> sounds like there's really nothing to say and they're trying to cover the
> lack of justification for what they did with secrecy.
>
> let's hear it.
>
>
> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:
>
>> The people who were actually there and made the call, did not want to
>> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the meeting.
>>
>> Would hashing things out a second time here, for the people who don't
>> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Irony is lost on this one.
>>>
>>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or
>>> SATAN
>>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
>>>
>>> Feynman, help us.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions are making noisebridge
>>>> look bad.  and getting the police to come over.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You know...it's funny.  I still have no idea what she did wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
>>>>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>      The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer
>>>>> feeling
>>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't
>>>>>      enough of a hacker and she should leave.
>>>>>
>>>>>      This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.
>>>>>
>>>>>      R.
>>>>>
>>>>>      On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>>            I couldn't have said it better myself.
>>>>>
>>>>>            Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?
>>>>>
>>>>>            I have to say,  I have noticed that some people (including
>>>>> Jesse for sure)
>>>>>            seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing
>>>>> around
>>>>> into the
>>>>>            reactionary zone after we started dealing with the
>>>>> occupiers.
>>>>>
>>>>>            Please re-read the below and let's not make the same
>>>>> mistakes
>>>>> again.
>>>>>            Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad judgement
>>>>> on
>>>>> the part of
>>>>>            the people who did it.
>>>>>
>>>>>            What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female
>>>>> members told them
>>>>>            to leave?
>>>>>
>>>>>            Carl said:
>>>>>            You know I don't post here all that much, but I really felt
>>>>> that I had
>>>>>            to respond to this...
>>>>>
>>>>>            I've read through all of the comments about what transpired
>>>>> with
>>>>>            Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes.
>>>>>  Although
>>>>> I haven't
>>>>>            been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from what
>>>>> I've read so
>>>>>            far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in
>>>>> this
>>>>> situation
>>>>>            treated her.  (This would include Jesse, Will, and
>>>>> apparently
>>>>> a third
>>>>>            man.)
>>>>>
>>>>>            First of all, calling the police really should not be done
>>>>> unless:
>>>>>
>>>>>            1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another person,
>>>>> causing
>>>>>            damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing trouble
>>>>> or
>>>>>            performing an illegal activity.
>>>>>
>>>>>            2. A person who has been officially banned from the space
>>>>> refuses to
>>>>>            leave.  And by "official", I mean a due process has been
>>>>> followed
>>>>>            whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to ban
>>>>> a
>>>>>            particular person.
>>>>>
>>>>>            3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to
>>>>> handle the
>>>>>            situation on our own should we get the police involved.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            I find it troubling when individuals take it upon themselves
>>>>> to forcibly
>>>>>            remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what
>>>>> I've
>>>>> read, did
>>>>>            NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave.  I
>>>>> believe it was
>>>>>            wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in this
>>>>> case, prior
>>>>>            to taking it up at a meeting where the members could discuss
>>>>> and make a
>>>>>            decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND
>>>>> ONLY
>>>>> AFTER
>>>>>            this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to ask
>>>>> someone to
>>>>>            not return.  (and as she brought up, informing her of this
>>>>> could have
>>>>>            been done through email prior to her arrival in order to
>>>>> avoid
>>>>> this
>>>>>            confrontation.)
>>>>>
>>>>>            I am also troubled by the flippant and immature responses on
>>>>> this list
>>>>>            about Cynthia being "crazy".  Her past talk of legal actions
>>>>> against
>>>>>            Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired.  As
>>>>> far
>>>>> as I can
>>>>>            tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the
>>>>> Oogles started
>>>>>            arriving at the space.  The first time Noisebridge ever
>>>>> banned
>>>>> anyone,
>>>>>            it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.
>>>>>  Nowadays it
>>>>>            seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't like.
>>>>>  How and why
>>>>>            did we get to this point?  And I'm not just talking about
>>>>> Cynthia here,
>>>>>            but others as well.  (take Erica for example, who no longer
>>>>> feels
>>>>>            welcome here.)
>>>>>
>>>>>            And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt
>>>>> non-hacker
>>>>> hate
>>>>>            mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will
>>>>> only
>>>>> drive away
>>>>>            new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture.  If
>>>>> we
>>>>> try to
>>>>>            make an effort to become friends with them, then we can
>>>>> encourage
>>>>>            newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by
>>>>> involving them
>>>>>            with our projects.  Instead of rejecting them, we should be
>>>>> trying to
>>>>>            encourage them to become productive participants in our
>>>>> community.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            -Carl
>>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>
>>>>>  https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
>>>>> Albert
>>>>> Einstein
>>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
>>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
>>> Einstein
>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
>>> there
>>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
>>>
>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>


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