[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave

jim jim at systemateka.com
Thu May 3 17:31:52 PDT 2012


    I think so, given that a few of us feel in the 
dark as well as unhappy with the action. 



On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 17:18 -0700, Joseph Brenner wrote:
> The people who were actually there and made the call, did not want to
> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the meeting.
> 
> Would hashing things out a second time here, for the people who don't
> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:
> > Irony is lost on this one.
> >
> > How about this, "Will someone, for the love of FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or SATAN
> > or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
> >
> > Feynman, help us.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions are making noisebridge
> >> look bad.  and getting the police to come over.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
> >>
> >>> You know...it's funny.  I still have no idea what she did wrong.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
> >>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>      The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer feeling
> >>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't
> >>>      enough of a hacker and she should leave.
> >>>
> >>>      This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.
> >>>
> >>>      R.
> >>>
> >>>      On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >>>            I couldn't have said it better myself.
> >>>
> >>>            Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?
> >>>
> >>>            I have to say,  I have noticed that some people (including
> >>> Jesse for sure)
> >>>            seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing around
> >>> into the
> >>>            reactionary zone after we started dealing with the occupiers.
> >>>
> >>>            Please re-read the below and let's not make the same mistakes
> >>> again.
> >>>            Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad judgement on
> >>> the part of
> >>>            the people who did it.
> >>>
> >>>            What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female
> >>> members told them
> >>>            to leave?
> >>>
> >>>            Carl said:
> >>>            You know I don't post here all that much, but I really felt
> >>> that I had
> >>>            to respond to this...
> >>>
> >>>            I've read through all of the comments about what transpired
> >>> with
> >>>            Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes.  Although
> >>> I haven't
> >>>            been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from what
> >>> I've read so
> >>>            far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in this
> >>> situation
> >>>            treated her.  (This would include Jesse, Will, and apparently
> >>> a third
> >>>            man.)
> >>>
> >>>            First of all, calling the police really should not be done
> >>> unless:
> >>>
> >>>            1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another person,
> >>> causing
> >>>            damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing trouble or
> >>>            performing an illegal activity.
> >>>
> >>>            2. A person who has been officially banned from the space
> >>> refuses to
> >>>            leave.  And by "official", I mean a due process has been
> >>> followed
> >>>            whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to ban a
> >>>            particular person.
> >>>
> >>>            3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to
> >>> handle the
> >>>            situation on our own should we get the police involved.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>            I find it troubling when individuals take it upon themselves
> >>> to forcibly
> >>>            remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what I've
> >>> read, did
> >>>            NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave.  I
> >>> believe it was
> >>>            wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in this
> >>> case, prior
> >>>            to taking it up at a meeting where the members could discuss
> >>> and make a
> >>>            decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND ONLY
> >>> AFTER
> >>>            this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to ask
> >>> someone to
> >>>            not return.  (and as she brought up, informing her of this
> >>> could have
> >>>            been done through email prior to her arrival in order to avoid
> >>> this
> >>>            confrontation.)
> >>>
> >>>            I am also troubled by the flippant and immature responses on
> >>> this list
> >>>            about Cynthia being "crazy".  Her past talk of legal actions
> >>> against
> >>>            Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired.  As far
> >>> as I can
> >>>            tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the
> >>> Oogles started
> >>>            arriving at the space.  The first time Noisebridge ever banned
> >>> anyone,
> >>>            it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.
> >>>  Nowadays it
> >>>            seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't like.
> >>>  How and why
> >>>            did we get to this point?  And I'm not just talking about
> >>> Cynthia here,
> >>>            but others as well.  (take Erica for example, who no longer
> >>> feels
> >>>            welcome here.)
> >>>
> >>>            And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt non-hacker
> >>> hate
> >>>            mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will only
> >>> drive away
> >>>            new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture.  If we
> >>> try to
> >>>            make an effort to become friends with them, then we can
> >>> encourage
> >>>            newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by
> >>> involving them
> >>>            with our projects.  Instead of rejecting them, we should be
> >>> trying to
> >>>            encourage them to become productive participants in our
> >>> community.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>            -Carl
> >>>            _______________________________________________
> >>>            Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>            Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>
> >>>  https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
> >>> Einstein
> >>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> >>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
> >>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
> >>>
> >>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
> > Einstein
> > Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> > Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there
> > is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exupéry
> >
> > Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
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