[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave

Corey McGuire coreyfro at coreyfro.com
Thu May 3 17:39:14 PDT 2012


Joe, I have no idea who you are.  As far as I know, I've never seen you
there.  Who's the troll?

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Joseph Brenner <doomvox at gmail.com> wrote:

> Uh huh.  And when people aren't actually willing to show their face to
> talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet troll that
> doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> > yes because whenever people say something is too horrible to possibly
> > discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about everything else, it
> just
> > sounds like there's really nothing to say and they're trying to cover the
> > lack of justification for what they did with secrecy.
> >
> > let's hear it.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:
> >
> >> The people who were actually there and made the call, did not want to
> >> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the meeting.
> >>
> >> Would hashing things out a second time here, for the people who don't
> >> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Irony is lost on this one.
> >>>
> >>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or
> >>> SATAN
> >>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
> >>>
> >>> Feynman, help us.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions are making noisebridge
> >>>> look bad.  and getting the police to come over.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> You know...it's funny.  I still have no idea what she did wrong.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
> >>>>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer
> >>>>> feeling
> >>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't
> >>>>>      enough of a hacker and she should leave.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      R.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >>>>>            I couldn't have said it better myself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            I have to say,  I have noticed that some people (including
> >>>>> Jesse for sure)
> >>>>>            seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing
> >>>>> around
> >>>>> into the
> >>>>>            reactionary zone after we started dealing with the
> >>>>> occupiers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            Please re-read the below and let's not make the same
> >>>>> mistakes
> >>>>> again.
> >>>>>            Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad
> judgement
> >>>>> on
> >>>>> the part of
> >>>>>            the people who did it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female
> >>>>> members told them
> >>>>>            to leave?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            Carl said:
> >>>>>            You know I don't post here all that much, but I really
> felt
> >>>>> that I had
> >>>>>            to respond to this...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            I've read through all of the comments about what
> transpired
> >>>>> with
> >>>>>            Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes.
> >>>>>  Although
> >>>>> I haven't
> >>>>>            been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from
> what
> >>>>> I've read so
> >>>>>            far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> situation
> >>>>>            treated her.  (This would include Jesse, Will, and
> >>>>> apparently
> >>>>> a third
> >>>>>            man.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            First of all, calling the police really should not be done
> >>>>> unless:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another
> person,
> >>>>> causing
> >>>>>            damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing
> trouble
> >>>>> or
> >>>>>            performing an illegal activity.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            2. A person who has been officially banned from the space
> >>>>> refuses to
> >>>>>            leave.  And by "official", I mean a due process has been
> >>>>> followed
> >>>>>            whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to
> ban
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>            particular person.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to
> >>>>> handle the
> >>>>>            situation on our own should we get the police involved.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            I find it troubling when individuals take it upon
> themselves
> >>>>> to forcibly
> >>>>>            remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what
> >>>>> I've
> >>>>> read, did
> >>>>>            NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave.  I
> >>>>> believe it was
> >>>>>            wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in
> this
> >>>>> case, prior
> >>>>>            to taking it up at a meeting where the members could
> discuss
> >>>>> and make a
> >>>>>            decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND
> >>>>> ONLY
> >>>>> AFTER
> >>>>>            this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to
> ask
> >>>>> someone to
> >>>>>            not return.  (and as she brought up, informing her of this
> >>>>> could have
> >>>>>            been done through email prior to her arrival in order to
> >>>>> avoid
> >>>>> this
> >>>>>            confrontation.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            I am also troubled by the flippant and immature responses
> on
> >>>>> this list
> >>>>>            about Cynthia being "crazy".  Her past talk of legal
> actions
> >>>>> against
> >>>>>            Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired.  As
> >>>>> far
> >>>>> as I can
> >>>>>            tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the
> >>>>> Oogles started
> >>>>>            arriving at the space.  The first time Noisebridge ever
> >>>>> banned
> >>>>> anyone,
> >>>>>            it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.
> >>>>>  Nowadays it
> >>>>>            seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't like.
> >>>>>  How and why
> >>>>>            did we get to this point?  And I'm not just talking about
> >>>>> Cynthia here,
> >>>>>            but others as well.  (take Erica for example, who no
> longer
> >>>>> feels
> >>>>>            welcome here.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt
> >>>>> non-hacker
> >>>>> hate
> >>>>>            mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will
> >>>>> only
> >>>>> drive away
> >>>>>            new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture.
>  If
> >>>>> we
> >>>>> try to
> >>>>>            make an effort to become friends with them, then we can
> >>>>> encourage
> >>>>>            newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by
> >>>>> involving them
> >>>>>            with our projects.  Instead of rejecting them, we should
> be
> >>>>> trying to
> >>>>>            encourage them to become productive participants in our
> >>>>> community.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            -Carl
> >>>>>            _______________________________________________
> >>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
> >>>>> Albert
> >>>>> Einstein
> >>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> >>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
> >>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
> Albert
> >>> Einstein
> >>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> >>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
> >>> there
> >>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
> >>>
> >>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >
>



-- 
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
Einstein <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein>
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da
Vinci<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci>
Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there
is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
Exupéry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry>
Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly
Johnson<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson>
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