[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave

Corey McGuire coreyfro at coreyfro.com
Thu May 3 17:42:16 PDT 2012


OK, I read the meeting notes.  This...is...in fact...bullshit.

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:

> Joe, I have no idea who you are.  As far as I know, I've never seen you
> there.  Who's the troll?
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Joseph Brenner <doomvox at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Uh huh.  And when people aren't actually willing to show their face to
>> talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet troll that
>> doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>> > yes because whenever people say something is too horrible to possibly
>> > discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about everything else, it
>> just
>> > sounds like there's really nothing to say and they're trying to cover
>> the
>> > lack of justification for what they did with secrecy.
>> >
>> > let's hear it.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:
>> >
>> >> The people who were actually there and made the call, did not want to
>> >> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the meeting.
>> >>
>> >> Would hashing things out a second time here, for the people who don't
>> >> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Irony is lost on this one.
>> >>>
>> >>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or
>> >>> SATAN
>> >>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
>> >>>
>> >>> Feynman, help us.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions are making
>> noisebridge
>> >>>> look bad.  and getting the police to come over.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> You know...it's funny.  I still have no idea what she did wrong.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
>> >>>>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>      The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer
>> >>>>> feeling
>> >>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't
>> >>>>>      enough of a hacker and she should leave.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>      This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>      R.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>      On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>            I couldn't have said it better myself.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            I have to say,  I have noticed that some people
>> (including
>> >>>>> Jesse for sure)
>> >>>>>            seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing
>> >>>>> around
>> >>>>> into the
>> >>>>>            reactionary zone after we started dealing with the
>> >>>>> occupiers.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            Please re-read the below and let's not make the same
>> >>>>> mistakes
>> >>>>> again.
>> >>>>>            Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad
>> judgement
>> >>>>> on
>> >>>>> the part of
>> >>>>>            the people who did it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female
>> >>>>> members told them
>> >>>>>            to leave?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            Carl said:
>> >>>>>            You know I don't post here all that much, but I really
>> felt
>> >>>>> that I had
>> >>>>>            to respond to this...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            I've read through all of the comments about what
>> transpired
>> >>>>> with
>> >>>>>            Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes.
>> >>>>>  Although
>> >>>>> I haven't
>> >>>>>            been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from
>> what
>> >>>>> I've read so
>> >>>>>            far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in
>> >>>>> this
>> >>>>> situation
>> >>>>>            treated her.  (This would include Jesse, Will, and
>> >>>>> apparently
>> >>>>> a third
>> >>>>>            man.)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            First of all, calling the police really should not be
>> done
>> >>>>> unless:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another
>> person,
>> >>>>> causing
>> >>>>>            damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing
>> trouble
>> >>>>> or
>> >>>>>            performing an illegal activity.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            2. A person who has been officially banned from the space
>> >>>>> refuses to
>> >>>>>            leave.  And by "official", I mean a due process has been
>> >>>>> followed
>> >>>>>            whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to
>> ban
>> >>>>> a
>> >>>>>            particular person.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to
>> >>>>> handle the
>> >>>>>            situation on our own should we get the police involved.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            I find it troubling when individuals take it upon
>> themselves
>> >>>>> to forcibly
>> >>>>>            remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what
>> >>>>> I've
>> >>>>> read, did
>> >>>>>            NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave.  I
>> >>>>> believe it was
>> >>>>>            wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in
>> this
>> >>>>> case, prior
>> >>>>>            to taking it up at a meeting where the members could
>> discuss
>> >>>>> and make a
>> >>>>>            decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND
>> >>>>> ONLY
>> >>>>> AFTER
>> >>>>>            this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to
>> ask
>> >>>>> someone to
>> >>>>>            not return.  (and as she brought up, informing her of
>> this
>> >>>>> could have
>> >>>>>            been done through email prior to her arrival in order to
>> >>>>> avoid
>> >>>>> this
>> >>>>>            confrontation.)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            I am also troubled by the flippant and immature
>> responses on
>> >>>>> this list
>> >>>>>            about Cynthia being "crazy".  Her past talk of legal
>> actions
>> >>>>> against
>> >>>>>            Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired.  As
>> >>>>> far
>> >>>>> as I can
>> >>>>>            tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the
>> >>>>> Oogles started
>> >>>>>            arriving at the space.  The first time Noisebridge ever
>> >>>>> banned
>> >>>>> anyone,
>> >>>>>            it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.
>> >>>>>  Nowadays it
>> >>>>>            seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't
>> like.
>> >>>>>  How and why
>> >>>>>            did we get to this point?  And I'm not just talking about
>> >>>>> Cynthia here,
>> >>>>>            but others as well.  (take Erica for example, who no
>> longer
>> >>>>> feels
>> >>>>>            welcome here.)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt
>> >>>>> non-hacker
>> >>>>> hate
>> >>>>>            mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will
>> >>>>> only
>> >>>>> drive away
>> >>>>>            new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture.
>>  If
>> >>>>> we
>> >>>>> try to
>> >>>>>            make an effort to become friends with them, then we can
>> >>>>> encourage
>> >>>>>            newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by
>> >>>>> involving them
>> >>>>>            with our projects.  Instead of rejecting them, we should
>> be
>> >>>>> trying to
>> >>>>>            encourage them to become productive participants in our
>> >>>>> community.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>            -Carl
>> >>>>>            _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
>> >>>>> Albert
>> >>>>> Einstein
>> >>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>> >>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but
>> when
>> >>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
>> Albert
>> >>> Einstein
>> >>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
>> >>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
>> >>> there
>> >>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry
>> >>>
>> >>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
> Einstein <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein>
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci>
> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exupéry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry>
>
> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson>
>



-- 
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
Einstein <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein>
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da
Vinci<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci>
Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there
is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
Exupéry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry>
Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly
Johnson<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson>
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