[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave

Corey McGuire coreyfro at coreyfro.com
Thu May 3 18:01:46 PDT 2012


Read it.  It sounds like bullying.  I didn't see that Cynthia did anything
wrong.  She just showed up, and people took offense to that.  That is
bullshit.

Look, there is a very good chance that I am going to bring non-hackers in
to noisebridge.  I may even hang out with them, there.  If I am supposed to
worry about the qualifications of every single person I invite in to
noisebridge, noisebridge is going to suffer from the lack of diversity.

People.  This is a lonely person picked on by people who judge her.  Tell
me she's the only person that has ever happened to.

Guess what?  Noisebridge is a play ground, and now we have our own bullies.

Fuck...that...noise.

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:52 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:

>
> Why?
>
>
> On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 17:42 -0700, Corey McGuire wrote:
> > OK, I read the meeting notes.  This...is...in fact...bullshit.
> >
> > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
> > wrote:
> >         Joe, I have no idea who you are.  As far as I know, I've never
> >         seen you there.  Who's the troll?
> >
> >
> >         On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Joseph Brenner
> >         <doomvox at gmail.com> wrote:
> >                 Uh huh.  And when people aren't actually willing to
> >                 show their face to
> >                 talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet
> >                 troll that
> >                 doesn't need to be taken seriously.
> >
> >                 On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> >                 wrote:
> >                 > yes because whenever people say something is too
> >                 horrible to possibly
> >                 > discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about
> >                 everything else, it just
> >                 > sounds like there's really nothing to say and
> >                 they're trying to cover the
> >                 > lack of justification for what they did with
> >                 secrecy.
> >                 >
> >                 > let's hear it.
> >                 >
> >                 >
> >                 > On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:
> >                 >
> >                 >> The people who were actually there and made the
> >                 call, did not want to
> >                 >> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the
> >                 meeting.
> >                 >>
> >                 >> Would hashing things out a second time here, for
> >                 the people who don't
> >                 >> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
> >                 >>
> >                 >>
> >                 >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire
> >                 <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
> >                 >> wrote:
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>> Irony is lost on this one.
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of
> >                 FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or
> >                 >>> SATAN
> >                 >>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>> Feynman, help us.
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake
> >                 <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >                 >>>>
> >                 >>>>
> >                 >>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions
> >                 are making noisebridge
> >                 >>>> look bad.  and getting the police to come over.
> >                 >>>>
> >                 >>>>
> >                 >>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
> >                 >>>>
> >                 >>>>> You know...it's funny.  I still have no idea
> >                 what she did wrong.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra
> >                 hospodar
> >                 >>>>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>      The last time I talked to her about it,
> >                 Erica was no longer
> >                 >>>>> feeling
> >                 >>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her
> >                 she wasn't
> >                 >>>>>      enough of a hacker and she should leave.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>      This after she had to ask him to stop
> >                 calling her at 3am.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>      R.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>      On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake"
> >                 <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> >                 >>>>>            I couldn't have said it better
> >                 myself.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            Why is Erica no longer feeling
> >                 welcome?
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            I have to say,  I have noticed that
> >                 some people (including
> >                 >>>>> Jesse for sure)
> >                 >>>>>            seem to be fulfilling my prediction
> >                 that we could swing
> >                 >>>>> around
> >                 >>>>> into the
> >                 >>>>>            reactionary zone after we started
> >                 dealing with the
> >                 >>>>> occupiers.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            Please re-read the below and let's
> >                 not make the same
> >                 >>>>> mistakes
> >                 >>>>> again.
> >                 >>>>>            Calling the police is a LAST RESORT
> >                 and shows bad judgement
> >                 >>>>> on
> >                 >>>>> the part of
> >                 >>>>>            the people who did it.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            What would Jesse or Will have done if
> >                 a couple of female
> >                 >>>>> members told them
> >                 >>>>>            to leave?
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            Carl said:
> >                 >>>>>            You know I don't post here all that
> >                 much, but I really felt
> >                 >>>>> that I had
> >                 >>>>>            to respond to this...
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            I've read through all of the comments
> >                 about what transpired
> >                 >>>>> with
> >                 >>>>>            Cynthia, on the discuss list and the
> >                 meeting notes.
> >                 >>>>>  Although
> >                 >>>>> I haven't
> >                 >>>>>            been present at Noisebridge during
> >                 the past week, from what
> >                 >>>>> I've read so
> >                 >>>>>            far, I am really not pleased about
> >                 how people involved in
> >                 >>>>> this
> >                 >>>>> situation
> >                 >>>>>            treated her.  (This would include
> >                 Jesse, Will, and
> >                 >>>>> apparently
> >                 >>>>> a third
> >                 >>>>>            man.)
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            First of all, calling the police
> >                 really should not be done
> >                 >>>>> unless:
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            1. Someone is harming or threatening
> >                 harm to another person,
> >                 >>>>> causing
> >                 >>>>>            damage to the space, stealing, or
> >                 otherwise causing trouble
> >                 >>>>> or
> >                 >>>>>            performing an illegal activity.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            2. A person who has been officially
> >                 banned from the space
> >                 >>>>> refuses to
> >                 >>>>>            leave.  And by "official", I mean a
> >                 due process has been
> >                 >>>>> followed
> >                 >>>>>            whereas a previous discussion and
> >                 consensus was taken to ban
> >                 >>>>> a
> >                 >>>>>            particular person.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge
> >                 community are unable to
> >                 >>>>> handle the
> >                 >>>>>            situation on our own should we get
> >                 the police involved.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            I find it troubling when individuals
> >                 take it upon themselves
> >                 >>>>> to forcibly
> >                 >>>>>            remove people from the space, who by
> >                 all accounts of what
> >                 >>>>> I've
> >                 >>>>> read, did
> >                 >>>>>            NOT cause any trouble prior to being
> >                 asked to leave.  I
> >                 >>>>> believe it was
> >                 >>>>>            wrong for Jesse and Will to have done
> >                 what they did in this
> >                 >>>>> case, prior
> >                 >>>>>            to taking it up at a meeting where
> >                 the members could discuss
> >                 >>>>> and make a
> >                 >>>>>            decision as to whether to ban Cynthia
> >                 from the space, AND
> >                 >>>>> ONLY
> >                 >>>>> AFTER
> >                 >>>>>            this discussion and consensus would
> >                 it be appropriate to ask
> >                 >>>>> someone to
> >                 >>>>>            not return.  (and as she brought up,
> >                 informing her of this
> >                 >>>>> could have
> >                 >>>>>            been done through email prior to her
> >                 arrival in order to
> >                 >>>>> avoid
> >                 >>>>> this
> >                 >>>>>            confrontation.)
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            I am also troubled by the flippant
> >                 and immature responses on
> >                 >>>>> this list
> >                 >>>>>            about Cynthia being "crazy".  Her
> >                 past talk of legal actions
> >                 >>>>> against
> >                 >>>>>            Texas corporations has no bearing on
> >                 what transpired.  As
> >                 >>>>> far
> >                 >>>>> as I can
> >                 >>>>>            tell, she hasn't forng more people
> >                 than prior to when the
> >                 >>>>> Oogles started
> >                 >>>>>            arriving at the space.  The first
> >                 time Noisebridge ever
> >                 >>>>> banned
> >                 >>>>> anyone,
> >                 >>>>>            it took considerable discussion and a
> >                 consensus process.
> >                 >>>>>  Nowadays it
> >                 >>>>>            seems like any member can just ban
> >                 anyone they don't like.
> >                 >>>>>  How and why
> >                 >>>>>            did we get to this point?  And I'm
> >                 not just talking about
> >                 >>>>> Cynthia here,
> >                 >>>>>            but others as well.  (take Erica for
> >                 example, who no longer
> >                 >>>>> feels
> >                 >>>>>            welcome here.)
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            And lastly, I think we need to stop
> >                 this witch-hunt
> >                 >>>>> non-hacker
> >                 >>>>> hate
> >                 >>>>>            mentality that we seem to be
> >                 developing here, which will
> >                 >>>>> only
> >                 >>>>> drive away
> >                 >>>>>            new people who may not be familiar
> >                 with hacker culture.  If
> >                 >>>>> we
> >                 >>>>> try to
> >                 >>>>>            make an effort to become friends with
> >                 them, then we can
> >                 >>>>> encourage
> >                 >>>>>            newcomers to contribute and learn to
> >                 become hackers by
> >                 >>>>> involving them
> >                 >>>>>            with our projects.  Instead of
> >                 rejecting them, we should be
> >                 >>>>> trying to
> >                 >>>>>            encourage them to become productive
> >                 participants in our
> >                 >>>>> community.
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>            -Carl
> >                 >>>>>
> >                  _______________________________________________
> >                 >>>>>            Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >                 >>>>>
> >                  Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>
> >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >                 >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >                 >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >                 >>>>>
> >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>> --
> >                 >>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible,
> >                 but no simpler -
> >                 >>>>> Albert
> >                 >>>>> Einstein
> >                 >>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -
> >                 Leonardo Da Vinci
> >                 >>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing
> >                 left to add, but when
> >                 >>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de
> >                 Saint Exup?ry
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >                 >>>>>
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>> --
> >                 >>> Everything should be made as simple as possible,
> >                 but no simpler - Albert
> >                 >>> Einstein
> >                 >>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -
> >                 Leonardo Da Vinci
> >                 >>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing
> >                 left to add, but when
> >                 >>> there
> >                 >>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
> >                 Exup?ry
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >                 >>>
> >                 >>> _______________________________________________
> >                 >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >                 >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >                 >>>
> >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >                 >>>
> >                 >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         --
> >         Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no
> >         simpler - Albert Einstein
> >         Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> >
> >         Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add,
> >         but when there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
> >         Exupéry
> >
> >         Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
> > Albert Einstein
> > Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> > Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
> > there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exupéry
> > Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>


-- 
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
Einstein <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein>
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da
Vinci<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci>
Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there
is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
Exupéry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry>
Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly
Johnson<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson>
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