[Noisebridge-discuss] Freedom isn't Free

Jake jake at spaz.org
Mon May 28 13:28:13 PDT 2012


bandit,

while some people actually believe that wars establish right from wrong, 
the progress of those wars is more predictable than a WWF wrestling* match 
because it's based on funding.

hitler was able to wage war because wealthy businessmen invested in him, 
because he provided a future which was attractive to those people.  In 
hitler's envisioned society, wealthy men would have much more power, in 
fact the power of life and death, and the right to work slaves to death 
(provided they weren't from the same breeding stock as the soldiers)

a lot of the funding that hitler received came from good old America, 
where there were (and are) plenty of wealthy businessmen wanting some of 
the power normally reserved for governments.  In fact, businessmen tried 
to pull a fascist coup in the USA in 1934, known as the Business Plot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler#Allegations_of_the_Business_Plot

None of those involved were prosecuted or even investigated (unlike 
many suspected "commies" during the red scare).
How many of those bankers were bankrolling hitler's rise to power?

George Bush's father was: (grandpa to our second Bush president)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

The Occupy Wall Street movement seeks, among other things, to diminish the 
power of Wall Street and the "businessmen" who do things like fund 
fascism and warmongering presidents.

What are Soldiers' attitudes toward Occupy Wall Street?

I'm not going to try to guess how you vote, but military folks voted for 
John McCain over Obama in 2008 by a factor of 3 to 1:
(unless the charts below are a total fabrication which is possible)

http://www.militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/081003_ep_2pp.pdf

We all know Bush Jr. started both the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war, 
for no legitimate reason (unless you include american hegemony).
McCain was running on a platform of more of the same.

And speaking for myself, I know that every single gung-ho proud military 
booster and soldier I meet is proudly advertising how they can't wait to 
get another Bush in the office so he can start more wars, unlike the 
pacifist Obama who just wants to end all the wars and spoil all the fun.

So to me it seems like the same people who are fighting these wars (today) 
are actually enjoying it a little too much, and maybe even encouraging 
these wars.  That's not very freedom-inducing (especially if you're an 
Afghan) and in my opinion, it very much DISHONORS the freedom-fighters you 
mention in your post, who saved us from fascism in the Good War WW II.

I think that the people on the Noisebridge Disuss list are pretty 
universally anti-war and anti-fascist, and do not support Wall Street 
economic power (which funds pro-war candidates and funded fascism in the 
WW II era).

I am guessing that you have not been sending messages on military mailing 
lists telling soldiers to honor the sacrifices of the WW II heroes by 
voting for the pacifist candidate and supporting OWS.  Am i wrong?

or is there a disconnect here?

You mention early in your post that there are still US military in harm's 
way.  What about the people in the sights of their guns?  Aren't they in 
harm's way too?  Whose land are they on?

At maker faire, i was carrying a sign protesting Maker Faire's involvement 
with DARPA.  Some people who were critical of my sign actually suggested 
that I wanted to "let Canada invade us."  If the military you claim we 
need is to defend us from the Canadians, sign me up right now.  I fucking 
love Canadians.  They are beautiful and friendly and interesting.

Some other people critical of my sign kept saying "I'm glad you have the 
freedom to carry that sign" suggesting that DARPA and the current US 
military is responsible for my having freedom of speech.  I disagree 
heartily, and I offer such suggestions as evidence of how ridiculous are 
the arguments of todays war boosters.

-jake

* - some people also believe WWF wrestling is real

bandit wrote:
Just a reminder on Memorial day..

Whatever you think of the wisdom of the current conflicts,
there are still US military folks in harm's way.
For those who think we do not need a military,
you are wrong.

We can debate the size and role of the military,
and that is a proper discussion to have for as long as we exist as a 
country.

However, Freedom isn't Free.
WW 2 showed that - without the sacrifice of many,
we would no longer exist as a country, and many of us would not be here
because the Japanese and Germans would have enslaved
and killed our parents and grandparents.
This is an historical fact.
I just met a Vet who was at Pearl Harbor on 7 Dev 1941.

So - please take a minute to reflect on
If you are Free, thank a Vet.

If you object to the above, please spend some time
at the Golden Gate National Cemetery
1300 Sneath Lane, San Bruno, CA 94006
Take a book on WW 2 Pacific battles.
You can match the dates of deaths to specific battles.
You are likely to be older than they were when they died.

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=673815285949243962&q=San+francisco+military+cemetery,+california&hl=en&t=h&cd=1&cad=src:ppiwlink&ei=VhzDT_ymM4KCowSMo728BA&dtab=2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2RwRi2TjA0&feature=player_embedded

Thanks ... bandit

-- 
bandit at cruzio.com
505-228-8197
bandit.name

I am a systems engineer, specializing in:
- Mission-Critical embedded systems
- device drivers
- control and data acquisition systems
My stuff *works* - *all the time*.

Member: INCOSE.org, PACA.org, IEEE.org, CaliforniaConsultants.org, 
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