[Noisebridge-discuss] Semantics

Mitchel McAllister xonimmortal at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 3 00:38:24 UTC 2013

Trying to consolidate the talking points here. Perhaps I should create a wiki page.

--- On Tue, 4/2/13, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you start seeing patterns of human behavior, look to the environment,
> not the individuals.  The chances are not high that all of those people 
> are "stupid".  The chances are much higher that Noisebridge has a bad user
> interface.

I'm having an attack of the giggles right now... Perhaps we need a poster-sized BSOD over areas where people are doing grown-up stuff (i.e., "working").

--- On Tue, 4/2/13, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> Agreed. I find it hard to accuse anyone else of being stupid before
> immediately doing something stupid myself.

My therapist defines it as insanity - expecting things to change, even though none of the elements of the circumstances are changing, other than me (and others) getting annoyed.

> I also agree that people asking you something while in the space is
> annoying, and one of the things that people have consistently said make
> it hard to work on a project there. I think a couple of solutions are 
> a) wear earphones, which is sort of the universal "do not disturb" sign
> and does not need explanation, b) book a room yourself.

On note "a)" many people can tell you that I am usually wearing my headphones, unless I am actually having a conversation with someone or walking to another place within the space. It seems to be the universal "I'm not doing anything important" sign. Oops, it just happened again, as I was writing this! Fricking fun for all mental-ages-below-twelve.

As far as "b)" goes, I've seriously thought about putting a sign outside of Turing, "Work in Progress". Considering how many times I see classes interrupted by people whose curiosity outweighs their consideration (the latest about three minutes ago), I'm not sure of the efficacy of this, but perhaps a test-run is in order.

> On the other hand, the other thing Rubin has often said that rings very
> true with me is that if you feel yourself being inconvenienced by new
> people or posessive of where you are working, it's very often the case
> that you yourself are using the space a bit too much, and you might want
> to hang out in another location for a while. While it's true that new
> people only have as much right as you to space to do stuff at 
> Noisebridge, equality is commutative.

I'm not possessive of a particular place. I just want somewhere I can work. I don't care where in the space it is, as long as I am allowed to work on my stuff without constant disruptions. I thought the first rule was "Be Excellent to Each Other"? How is being disruptive being excellent? 

Honestly, it sounds like you are trying to shift blame onto me, for what I have no control over.

--- On Tue, 4/2/13, Andrew Byrne <andrew at pachakutech.com> wrote:
> On a slightly more sociopathic note that only mirrors Naomi's
> well-founded advice, why do you seek the living amongst the dead?
> Shaming people effects little change--it assumes an agency that's often
> lacking--but moving a chair can have profound social consequences. -dru

Trying to set a good example doesn't work either. I try to be considerate to others. I try to be polite and welcoming. I try to do my share in keeping the space relatively neat and clean. I try to let newcomers know how things work - at least the way they are reputed to work, anyway.

I honestly believe that if you show the people around you how to treat others well, by example not sermons, they will take it to heart and try to do the same. At least I used to, until empirical evidence proved otherwise.

Something tells me we are going to be working through all the things that don't work, long before we come to a strategy that even "sort of" works.

I'm not sure how we got from me pointing out that there are people in the space who feel they can co-opt any part of the space, whenever they feel like it, regardless of other people using the space, to "enumerating the ways that Reverend Mik is wrong".

I know I am wrong. That component of the Unified Field Theory of Everything is impressed upon me daily. I know my work is unimportant and irrelevant. That, too, seems codified into the structure of the space-time continuum (I refer physics majors to the thought experiment known as "Schrodinger's Loser").

- Reverend Mik McAllister

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