[Noisebridge-discuss] pony.noise/gate video feed

Danny O'Brien danny at spesh.com
Fri Apr 12 20:20:41 UTC 2013


On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:18:14PM -0700, Artur Moczulski wrote:
> Well, let's start off from the fact that you would have to be inside the space
> to do it. And you would try to invigilate NBers like that, you would have to be
> there all the time. So somebody would definitely notice you! I'm pretty sure a
> bunch of programmers and computer geeks at NB can notice if you are up to some
> malicious activities by accidently glancing at your screen when passing by.
> Especially if you are there long enough to stealth spy NBers.
> 
> Besides, the same argument applies to the video feed which we already have. I'm
> pretty sure it wouldn't be very hard for you somebody to set up a small camera
> somewhere in the space directed and zoomed on the screen for such malicious
> purposes. There is a lot of hardware laying around at NB, I'm sure nobody would
> spot it for a long time.

A lot of people are already uncomfortable with the video feed, which is
specifically analog in an attempt to make some compromise with those
concerns. Only last week there was a discussion about how it might be
replaced with an INORDINATELY long periscope to help allay those worries
further. 

Noisebridge has always been a place with a strong cultural bias for
enabling and preserving anonymity, online and off. It's built into the
DNA partly because many people want Noisebridge to be a place where it's
safe to explore topics which have, historically, led to overbroad
investigations, subpoenas, grand jury investigations and so forth. It's
also because many of those projects are intended in showing that states
of constant surveillance are unhealthy to society.

It's why the origanization supports NoiseTor and why many people strive
to come up with alternative solutions that don't create systems of
surveillance. 

I'd also note that there are people who disagree with that position
also, but I am not sure that either side is going to come to any
agreement, especially on a mailing list. Compromises are always
possible, but they generally involve sitting together and talking things
through.

d.

> 
> The truth is unexcellent enough to assault NBers privacy and stealth spy on
> them for some reason, I'm pretty sure they could do it anyway.
> 
> I think that there is much more positives to having such a feed than negatives.
> 
> On 12 April 2013 11:24, LinkReincarnate <linkreincarnate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>     How would they notice? If I connect to that page using screen capture
>     software would people notice?
> 
>     On Apr 12, 2013 10:53 AM, "John Ellis" <neurofog at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>         Ken,
> 
>         On the first point, I agree.
> 
>         As for the second point, the combination of do-ocracy, and shared
>         management of systems goes against such "stealth monitoring".
>         eg. Anyone can work on the door system, to repair, modify, adapt, as
>         long as it doesn't create problems for the property management, and is
>         considered "excellent"
> 
>         Same deal with the servers. If somebody was stealth recording the
>         stream on pony, then somebody else would notice. Pony (or virtually any
>         of the NB servers) don't have an implied expectation of privacy from
>         other users, do they? Unexcellent use of resources would have
>         consequences.
> 
>         Cheers!
>         -John
>         (Re-sent to discuss)
> 
>         On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Ken M. Haggerty <
>         kenmhaggerty at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>             In a separate previous discussion the following concerns were
>             raised:
> 
>             • Some NBers did not want to encourage those not at Noisebridge to
>             open the gate remotely, and adding a video feed to the page may
>             encourage that.
> 
>             • Some NBers are concerned about any infrastructure that
>             conceptually allows stealth recording of NBers, including when
>             entering the space, are in general against even having a camera at
>             entrance (except perhaps one with a retractable cover).
>            
>             -Ken
>            
> 
>             On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Cameron Hackett <camhkt at gmail.com
>             > wrote:
> 
>                 Hey guys. Chris just came up with a cool idea. We should add a
>                 video / sound feed from the camera downstairs to the gate
>                 opening page we have on the network, so that anyone anywhere
>                 can monitor who is coming into and out of Noisebridge.
> 
>                 On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Artur Moczulski <
>                 arthur.paul.black at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>                     Hey guys. Chris just came up with a cool idea. We should
>                     add a video / sound feed from the camera downstairs to the
>                     gate opening page we have on the network.
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