[Noisebridge-discuss] Thought crimes at Noisebridge, and how can we stop them?

jim jim at well.com
Thu Dec 19 18:42:24 UTC 2013


Al, 
    Your questions are good and thank you for 
your response. 
    I will not name names, nor will I dig up 
info that might allow surmise, other than you 
and me. I admire you and your seeming pure-
hearted tenacity. Mostly you've taken 
initiative to boot out the sleepers: kudos! 
    Consider the ideas of associate members 
and closing hours and a council in light of 
the ideas of community collaboration and an 
open venue. 
    There has been disaffection of various 
kinds ever since the build-out was somewhat 
done and decorations up. 
    Please take my response as food for 
reflection, suggestions to balance the urge 
to create policy. 


On Thu, 2013-12-19 at 10:10 -0800, Al Sweigart wrote:
> Jim, could you give some examples of which NB members left because of
> rule makers rather than rule breakers? And can you say which rule
> makers and what rules they had gripes about? (I don't mind if you name
> me among them.)
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>         
>         
>             Trying to find community is a matter of bonding
>         with others, yes? Why not come and find others who
>         share your values and interests and, with respect
>         to others, live and let live?
>             One big and largely ignored fact of NB is that
>         there are several communities, such as the morning,
>         mid-day, evening, and late evening people as well
>         as those that center about electronics, sewing,
>         software, cooking, spacebridge, and other interests.
>             It's unfortunate for some, who are harmless or
>         who offer real benefits to some others, that the
>         evening crowd has a much greater affect than others
>         regarding NB governance, and one of the founding
>         principles has been to recognize those who, for
>         whatever reasons, do not or can not attend
>         The Tuesday Night Meeting.
>         
>             You've exaggerated the bad features and skipped
>         the good features of Noisebridge. A couple of good
>         features are
>         * the openness provides a great place to meet people
>           that one otherwise would never meet.
>         * cross-fertilization of interests and ideas among
>           various interest groups.
>         
>             Those who simply "hack" and avoid the fray are
>         affected by the decisions of those who kick up the
>         fray: e.g. associate members and closing hours among
>         other tho't crimes.
>             The attempts to impose rules to govern mostly
>         * mask individuals' behaviors (people can blind
>           themselves to reality with the comfort that there
>           are rules)
>         * and, it seems to me having watched NB from its
>           inception, like medicines' side effects, rules
>           generally are not worth the enforcement efforts.
>         
>             It's frustrating to put up with the bad sides of
>         any community, but rules usually do not address many
>         aspects of reality that drive behavior; patience is
>         a tough road.
>             There have been individual, do-ocratic efforts to
>         address theft, sleeping, drug use, and other problems
>         that were successful and did not employ rules.
>         
>             Most of the people I learned to love have left.
>         I guess that's partly a matter of natural attrition,
>         but I know for a fact that to some degree people have
>         abandoned NB because of the rule makers rather than
>         the rule breakers.
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         On Wed, 2013-12-18 at 19:41 -0800, Madelynn Martiniere wrote:
>         > Trying to find community is a thought crime? My bad, I
>         didn't realize
>         > the opinion of people who care about the future of the space
>         were so
>         > criminal.
>         >
>         > Considering this statement in your previous email:
>         > And let's be honest, Noisebridge in the last two years (or
>         even from the
>         > beginning) hasn't been the best establishment to go flaunt
>         around saying
>         > you're a member of. It's sort of like telling all your
>         friends you're a
>         > paying member of the festering techno trash dump and care
>         home for the
>         > socially dongz, while mice and rats run around inside your
>         sports blazer.
>         >
>         > Are you saying that it's not worth fixing because it's so
>         messed up?
>         > Because if so, then you're in no position to tell other
>         people not to
>         > try. If you're that sick and tired of hearing other people
>         try to fix
>         > a broken system, then I would suggest the alternative of
>         just not
>         > participating in any discussion about the space. Just hack
>         some
>         > things, and leave the rest of us to find productive
>         solutions.
>         >
>         > Cheers,
>         > Madelynn
>         >
>         >
>         > >
>         
>         > > Rubin Abdi
>         > > December 18, 2013 6:37 PM
>         > > I'm getting sick and tired of people thinking they can fix
>         > > Noisebridge.
>         > > How can we put an end to this issue?
>         > >
>         > >
>         > > _______________________________________________
>         > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>         > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>         > >
>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>         > >
>         >
>         > --
>         > Madelynn Martiniere
>         > Community Engineer. Entrepreneur. Geek.
>         >
>         > LinkedIn | Twitter | Email
>         >
>         >
>         >
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>         
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