[Noisebridge-discuss] Thought crimes at Noisebridge, and how can we stop them?

jim jim at well.com
Thu Dec 19 20:04:42 UTC 2013


     (My recollection is) originally we 
had declared that we must remember that 
members may participate in various, all 
valid, means: The Tuesday Night Meeting, 
IRC, various mailman lists.... 
    Managing these (and other) media is 
too great a job for any one person (and 
thanks for trying!). 
    My take was to have faith in others 
and don't try to fix problems--let the 
group dynamics take their courses and 
hope for the best (and get active with 
respect to things that impinge directly). 




On Thu, 2013-12-19 at 11:35 -0800, Danny O'Brien wrote:
> I agree with a lot (but not all) of this; in particular I do think
> that having the Tuesday meeting as the only face-to-face way to
> bubbling issues from one group to wider communities isn't great. I
> often think the Tuesday meeting is unrepresentative of the rest of the
> community.
> 
> My last two consensus proposals are partly aimed at improving that a
> little. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items
> 
> I also think that this could be fixed with some sort of wider
> inter-communication. I used to do this, but it was a lot of work just
> on my own.
> 
> d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     Trying to find community is a matter of bonding
> > with others, yes? Why not come and find others who
> > share your values and interests and, with respect
> > to others, live and let live?
> >     One big and largely ignored fact of NB is that
> > there are several communities, such as the morning,
> > mid-day, evening, and late evening people as well
> > as those that center about electronics, sewing,
> > software, cooking, spacebridge, and other interests.
> >     It's unfortunate for some, who are harmless or
> > who offer real benefits to some others, that the
> > evening crowd has a much greater affect than others
> > regarding NB governance, and one of the founding
> > principles has been to recognize those who, for
> > whatever reasons, do not or can not attend
> > The Tuesday Night Meeting.
> >
> >     You've exaggerated the bad features and skipped
> > the good features of Noisebridge. A couple of good
> > features are
> > * the openness provides a great place to meet people
> >   that one otherwise would never meet.
> > * cross-fertilization of interests and ideas among
> >   various interest groups.
> >
> >     Those who simply "hack" and avoid the fray are
> > affected by the decisions of those who kick up the
> > fray: e.g. associate members and closing hours among
> > other tho't crimes.
> >     The attempts to impose rules to govern mostly
> > * mask individuals' behaviors (people can blind
> >   themselves to reality with the comfort that there
> >   are rules)
> > * and, it seems to me having watched NB from its
> >   inception, like medicines' side effects, rules
> >   generally are not worth the enforcement efforts.
> >
> >     It's frustrating to put up with the bad sides of
> > any community, but rules usually do not address many
> > aspects of reality that drive behavior; patience is
> > a tough road.
> >     There have been individual, do-ocratic efforts to
> > address theft, sleeping, drug use, and other problems
> > that were successful and did not employ rules.
> >
> >     Most of the people I learned to love have left.
> > I guess that's partly a matter of natural attrition,
> > but I know for a fact that to some degree people have
> > abandoned NB because of the rule makers rather than
> > the rule breakers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2013-12-18 at 19:41 -0800, Madelynn Martiniere wrote:
> >> Trying to find community is a thought crime? My bad, I didn't realize
> >> the opinion of people who care about the future of the space were so
> >> criminal.
> >>
> >> Considering this statement in your previous email:
> >> And let's be honest, Noisebridge in the last two years (or even from the
> >> beginning) hasn't been the best establishment to go flaunt around saying
> >> you're a member of. It's sort of like telling all your friends you're a
> >> paying member of the festering techno trash dump and care home for the
> >> socially dongz, while mice and rats run around inside your sports blazer.
> >>
> >> Are you saying that it's not worth fixing because it's so messed up?
> >> Because if so, then you're in no position to tell other people not to
> >> try. If you're that sick and tired of hearing other people try to fix
> >> a broken system, then I would suggest the alternative of just not
> >> participating in any discussion about the space. Just hack some
> >> things, and leave the rest of us to find productive solutions.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Madelynn
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Rubin Abdi
> >> > December 18, 2013 6:37 PM
> >> > I'm getting sick and tired of people thinking they can fix
> >> > Noisebridge.
> >> > How can we put an end to this issue?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Madelynn Martiniere
> >> Community Engineer. Entrepreneur. Geek.
> >>
> >> LinkedIn | Twitter | Email
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> >
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> >
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